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Instability of the Baltic States

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  • Instability of the Baltic States

    Over the last couple of days, numerous reports have surfaced about mass rioting occurring in Uzbekistan, a former satellite state of the Soviet Union. The latest riots killed hundreds of protesters in the streets of Andijan. The Uzbeks were protesting against the repressive regime of dictator President Islam Karimov. Hundreds of citizens have packed up and fled to neighboring Kyrgyzstan, where there are now refugee camps, and the beginning of another international refugee crisis (Sudan redux).

    What gets me is we have a US base in Uzbekistan with troops assigned to do counter terrorism work (Afghanistan is right next door). I thought we were all about spreading democracy and freedom around the world? If that's the case, why aren't we helping the democratic resistance to overthrow the repressive regime as we have in so many other countries?

    Are we just idly standing by as hundreds of people are killed in the streets of Andijan just because we like the dictator Karimov and the strategic placement of a US base next door to Afghanistan? I wonder if Uzbekistan was sitting on a huge reserve of oil if we wouldn't be sending troops there (or at least CIA "advisors") to overthrow the President? Are we not acting on these human rights violations because we are already in deep caca with Pres. Putin after the Prez's visit with him during VE Day commemorations?

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  • #2
    Re: Instability of the Baltic States

    More information on The White House's friend, President Islam Karimov, and his repressive regime's policies.

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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    • #3
      Re: Instability of the Baltic States

      It points out one of the central problems for current US policy towards emerging democracies in the Middle East and Central Asia: the "people power" may be Islamist in nature. If Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, or any of our "friends" were to allow free elections, the result could well be fundamental Islamic government; that almost happened in Algeria ten or fifteen years ago. The pattern could be the same all over that region, and those governments might not be very friendly toward US goals.

      The purist in me says we gotta live with what the people want; the pragmatist says "Yikes. Don't encourage or discourage these demonstrations; just hope for the best."

      Oh, and Miulang: "Baltic" states? What have Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia got to do with Uzbekistan and all the other "stans?"
      http://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/

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      • #4
        Re: Instability of the Commonwealth of Independent States

        Originally posted by Linkmeister
        Oh, and Miulang: "Baltic" states? What have Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia got to do with Uzbekistan and all the other "stans?"
        Ok, Ok, Link, you win. The official designation of the Republics of Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan is the "Commonwealth of Independent States" in mid-Central Asia.

        Miulang
        Last edited by Miulang; May 15, 2005, 07:59 AM.
        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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        • #5
          Re: Instability of the Baltic States

          The reasons why we continue to support the oppressive regime of Karimov are becoming patently obvious: we need him to stay in power because of Uzbekistan's natural gas reserves and because he allowed us to put an important Air Force base in his country, right across the border from Afghanistan.

          Um, what happened to the US policy of encouraging democracy around the world? Why did we allow 700 Uzbeks to be slaughtered? Why are civilians rioting in the streets against the poor economic conditions?

          Isn't the White House being a little hypocritical about closing its eyes to the massacres and human rights violations occurring in Uzbekistan and the Sudan, while we didn't condone these things when Saddam was in power and gave some of the very same reasons for wanting to topple Saddam's regime?

          Miulang
          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Instability of the Baltic States

            Originally posted by Miulang

            Isn't the White House being a little hypocritical about closing its eyes to the massacres and human rights violations occurring in Uzbekistan and the Sudan, while we didn't condone these things when Saddam was in power and gave some of the very same reasons for wanting to topple Saddam's regime?

            Miulang
            Of course. Just like McLellan was hypocritical today about Newsweek's Koran story.
            "It's puzzling. While Newsweek now acknowledges that they got the facts wrong, they refuse to retract the story," said presidential spokesman Scott McClellan. "I think there's a certain journalistic standard that should be met. In this instance it was not."

            "This was a report based on a single anonymous source that could not substantiate the allegation that was made," McClellan added. "The report has had serious consequences. People have lost their lives. The image of the United States abroad has been damaged. I just find it puzzling."
            Right. But the White House got its facts wrong about WMD in Iraq, and refuses to retract the war. There's a certain Presidential standard that should be met. In that instance it was not.

            The WMD report was based on info from a sleazeball code-named Curveball who could not substantiate the allegations that were made. That has had serious consequences. People have lost their lives. (1,600+ Americans and who knows how many Iraqis.) The image of the United States abroad has been damaged. (You think?)
            http://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/

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            • #7
              Re: Instability of the Baltic States

              So now we've got another human rights crisis emerging in Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. Millions of refugees trying to escape slaughter in Uzbekistan by running across the border to Kyrgyzstan. And all our goverment intends to do is look the other way at the atrocities that the "Tyrant of Tashkent" is inflicting upon his people. Where is our humanity? Why do we insist that we have to keep Karimov in power? Probably because if there was an "orange revolution" in Uzbekistan like there was in the Ukraine, the natural resources would become nationalized, and our multibillion dollar US companies who are making huge profits today would get kicked out, or at least have control taken away from them, and that's something the White House cannot stand. So the killing of innocent people who merely want to live better lives continues...

              Miulang
              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

              Comment


              • #8
                The occupants of the White House are hypocrites

                Another reason why the neocon belief that Saddam Hussein had to be removed from power is hypocritical: Compared to the despotic leader of Uzbekistan, Islam Karimov, Saddam was a freaking choirboy!

                How can we say that one despotic government had to be overthrown while allowing another one to flourish and commit all kinds of humanitarian atrocities? Simple. Our foreign policy will ignore despotic acts if the despot has things which the US needs so badly that we have to bend rules.

                Again, the White House has no ethics or sense of justice...all it cares about is furthering its own agenda--and that is to remain strong militarily--regardless of the consequences to a nationalist population.

                Miulang
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Instability of the Baltic States

                  It is the Dollar-Euro War.The invasion of Iraq was protested around the world as "blood for oil" but the real reason was that Huessin switched trading his oil from dollars to euros.And it turned out well for him as the dollar declined.OPEC and other oil producers like Russia are all either switching or talking about switching to using euros to trade oil.No more petrodollars will be disastrous for the dollar as the world switches en masse to the euro to be able to buy oil.The petroeuro will be great for Europe but will pull the plug on the dollar-printing free-ride US economy.
                  A military presence in Iraq will put the fear of God into Saudi Arabia,where US troops are being withdrawn or kicked out of,and the other Gulf oil states.
                  Unfortunately if Russia and other large strong oil states all switch to the euro there is nothing the US can do about it.The world is switching anyway to the euro and within this decade the world's currency reserve and oil and commodities trading will be in euros.The longer term future is the yuan and/or the Asian "dollar" which will supplant the euro.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Instability of the Baltic States

                    And that's precisely why we will invade Iran in the next couple of months. It will follow the same scenario as our invasion of Iraq: there will be trumped up allegations that Iran has WMDs. Israel will be allowed to invade Iran because we don't have enough troops to do the job ourselves.

                    The REAL reason why we want to occupy Iran is because they want to start trading in petroeuros rather than petrodollars, and China, India and Pakistan are all chomping at the bit to buy their crude from them.

                    If the petrodollar collapses, so will our economy. More and more of our US corporations are seeing investments and investors from foreign countries. Pretty soon, everything American will be owned by the Germans, the French, the Chinese or the Indians. Take your new Hawaiian Tel, for instance. Carlyle the cabal was allowed to seek foreign investors. I don't know what percentage of your phone company is owned by foreign investors, but a chunk is. So when they produce their first annual report, it would be interesting to read the financials to see where the investments came from that allowed Carlyle to steal your phone company away from Verizon.

                    Miulang
                    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Instability of the Baltic States

                      Don't know about the US taking on Iran at least right now.

                      The US has a low enough image around the world and invading Iran would kill it.Being the first country in world history to be hatd by the whole world is not a good historical milestone.

                      Afghanistan and Iraq are giving US troops enough problems and Iran wasn't made defenseless by the first Gulf war and a decade of sanctions.They have a well-armed and trained military and the technology and missiles to bloody US troops and Israel.

                      Iran is the southern front of the Eurasian Alliance of Europe-Russia-China and they have too much of their money and men in Iran working on oil and gas fields to just stand by.
                      The alliance can just have Russia,Indonesia,and other OPEC members switch to the euro and China can dump its dollars and US debt guaranteeing the instant and total collapse of the dollar and US economy.They wouldn't need their militaries or nukes to take out America,just their money to turn America into a third world banana republic overnight.American society will literally blow up into an LA riots land.

                      Iran knows all this and is actually probably hoping America tries something,
                      but Bush & Co. also know so probably won't try something so dumb.If they do I will be ready with my stainless steel 9mm Beretta 92FS's and gold bullion pandas,Aussie nuggets,maple leafs,etc.

                      America now faces "the sorrows of empire": a state of perpetual war,
                      soon with weapons of mass destruction; the end of constitutional
                      democracy, with a Pentagonised presidency; and the bankruptcy of the
                      US economy.US imperial ambitions are designed to overcome the inherent
                      failures and contradictions of the American economy.Bush's open-ended
                      claims for US power--including the unilateral right to invade and
                      occupy "failed states" to execute "regime change"--offend
                      international law and are prerogatives associated only with
                      empire. But Bush's greater vulnerability is about money. You can't
                      sustain an empire from a debtor's weakening position--sooner or later
                      the creditors pull the plug. That humiliating lesson was learned by
                      Great Britain early in the last century, and the United States faces a
                      similar reckoning ahead.
                      Last edited by ahola; May 27, 2005, 06:18 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The Sanctity of Human Life

                        Apparently, our government doesn't value any human being's life if it means giving up political advantage.

                        Remember the massacres in Uzbekistan about a month ago? These were a true human rights violation if there ever was one. If the United States is so adamant about "spreading freedom", why aren't we holding the Karimov government accountable for killing so many of its citizens?

                        Because we want to keep using the air base we set up on the despot's land, that's why. Because that airfield is next to the Afghanistan border.

                        How hypocritical is it of us to declare that we stand for freedom and democracy and then we go ahead and turn our heads when despots like Karimov torture their people?

                        Miulang
                        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                        Comment

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