DOE And the Scouts

[alohabear]

Why is it with the new anti-gay policy the Boy Scouts of America has in place that the DOE still lets schools sponsor Scouts and let them hold meetings at thier schools? I work at a public school and the DOE has strict rules about groups using thier buildings,including any groups that discriminates against race,sex,etc. I was told by my son's Elem. School that the PTA has always sponsored the Scouts and they will continue to do so. Why is the policy good for some and not others?

[pzarquon]

Re: DOE And the Scouts

I would imagine some churches have discriminatory policies and views against gays, and they also have access to school property to conduct events. Access for all is easier to administer than access for some. The real test would be if, say, the Hawaii Atheists Union or a gay support group is also given the same opportunities to rent or use classrooms.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: DOE And the Scouts

How do churches get onto school properties, anyway?

When I pass by Farrington High School on the weekend, the place is completely occupied by the New Hope Chapel people. They use the school auditorium, plus they park all over the place and erect big tents too. Do they have a long term lease? What about all the wear and tear on the facilities and the grounds that these weekly, all-weekend-long church services are causing?

And down the road a bit, the Jesus Coming Soon church on Middle Street is always using the parking lot of the elementary school next door. How is that allowed?

[scrivener]

Re: DOE And the Scouts

Churches are allowed to use public facilities such as elementary schools. The agreement is usually that no group is allowed to stay for more than three years, so that no group starts to think of a site as its own. Before New Hope met at Farrington, it was meeting at the Stan Sheriff Center at UH-Manoa. I imagine its time at Farrington must be close to up and wonder where it will move next.

I'm pretty sure every group that uses facilities pays the school for the use, but then I'm not sure. If the facility is there for public use, it could very well be free. I've had organized functions at school basketball courts and never paid a cent.

I have no doubt at all that an atheists group or a gay rights group would have no problem getting the use of a facility.

[scrivener]

Re: DOE And the Scouts

I was told by my son's Elem. School that the PTA has always sponsored the Scouts and they will continue to do so. Why is the policy good for some and not others?

In what way does the PTA "sponsor" the pack or troop in question? Is it giving money?

[Miulang]

Re: DOE And the Scouts

I find the anti-gay restrictions of the Boy Scouts to be a tad bit hypocritical myself. I mean, how many Scout masters have been accused and been found guilty of pedophilia? Sounds like the Mayor of Spokane, who was so outspoken about laws to protect homosexuals in WA state and yet was discovered to be "one of those" himself who had abused some of his Scout troop members awhile back.

Same thing with the Catholic church. Maybe if they allowed married priests they would reduce the number of incidents of pedophilia and also attract more clergy back to the fold.

Miulang

[craigwatanabe]

Re: DOE And the Scouts

In what way does the PTA "sponsor" the pack or troop in question? Is it giving money?

Typically there is a PTA board member who is also a scout leader of sorts. But I've seen a public elementary school actually sponsor a cub scout pack. It's not giving money it's more of a charter organization where an entity will feed it's scouts from another organization.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: DOE And the Scouts

I find the anti-gay restrictions of the Boy Scouts to be a tad bit hypocritical myself. I mean, how many Scout masters have been accused and been found guilty of pedophilia? Sounds like the Mayor of Spokane, who was so outspoken about laws to protect homosexuals in WA state and yet was discovered to be "one of those" himself who had abused some of his Scout troop members awhile back.

Same thing with the Catholic church. Maybe if they allowed married priests they would reduce the number of incidents of pedophilia and also attract more clergy back to the fold.

Heh. And maybe if they let girls into the Scouts, you'd cut down on the number of homosexual boy-boy encounters that happen late at night in those pup tents after lights-out. Hey, I would've joined one of those troops.

[scrivener]

Re: DOE And the Scouts

I find the anti-gay restrictions of the Boy Scouts to be a tad bit hypocritical myself. I mean, how many Scout masters have been accused and been found guilty of pedophilia?

I don't think it's hypocritical at all. It is the organization that is against admitting homosexual members (no pun intended). Scoutmasters are volunteers--usually parents--who lead individual troops. They have little to say about organizational policies.

Same thing with the Catholic church. Maybe if they allowed married priests they would reduce the number of incidents of pedophilia and also attract more clergy back to the fold.

I'm not Catholic, but I take mild offense at statements like this. It's as if to say that the problem is not with the men who hold the positions (again, no pun intended) but with the restrictions that were already in place when these men signed up for the job. The implication seems to be that a voluntarily chaste single man is more likely to commit sexual crimes against children than a married man. You're entitled to that belief, but I'd like you to know that voluntarily chaste men like me are likely to bristle at such statements. My commitment to myself, my future wife, and my God make me less likely to commit a sexual crime. A married pedophile seems to me just as likely to commit crimes against children as a chaste pedophile.

People are people, and they will make mistakes, and they will commit horrible atrocities upon other people, as these priests have; however, these are clearly men who never should have been in the clergy, or who should have taken themselves out a long time ago. It is their own fallibility, evil, perversion, or whatever to blame, not the requirements of a career that defines itself by its selflessness.

[Miulang]

Re: DOE And the Scouts

People are people, and they will make mistakes, and they will commit horrible atrocities upon other people, as these priests have; however, these are clearly men who never should have been in the clergy, or who should have taken themselves out a long time ago. It is their own fallibility, evil, perversion, or whatever to blame, not the requirements of a career that defines itself by its selflessness.

That's not what I'm saying at all...after all, there are married pastors of other denominations who also prey on the weak and emotionally vulnerable. There are also counselors who do the same; ditto with teachers (BTW: Mary Kay LeTourneau and her former student Vili Fualau are getting married tonight at a winery near here...a happy ending? She's the one who was convicted of having sex with a minor and who had 2 kids by the guy). All I'm saying is it's not human nature to remain abstinent. And if the only partners you have are of the same sex, then you just go with the flow.

I know a highly thought-of Lutheran minister (now retired) who sexually abused one of his daughters and who also had affairs with some of his parishoners. Why? Because the opportunity was there.

Miulang

[adrian]

Re: DOE And the Scouts

I thought I never have to bring this up again:

I used to be a Cub/Boy Scout with a group that meet at August Ahrens elementary during the evenings (one of the scoutmasters had the keys to the school, so we meet at the cafe). Anyway, the head scoutmaster was an indian, so he was close to the boys and the scouting community. He had a son who joined the cubscouts then joined the boy scouts after me and my brother took some time off from scouting (going from cub scouts to boy scouts in the same group). We went camping up near the north shore, and things started to look weird between the scoutmaster and his son (they spent time together like normal father and sons should, but it was deeper) A few months later, we found out from our boy scoutmaster, that the head scoutmaster was imprisoned for molesting his son. The son is with the mother and the last I remembered about the scoutmaster, he should get out of jail in a few months (if I remembered when we received the news).

This was a guy who we trusted for 7+ years, and he does that to his son? I wondered if he did that to other scouts?

And to tie this up with the post (and to kill 2 birds with one stone) we helped cleaned up the school if we see a mess and they let us take part in school events to help us and to help them.

That's my story and I'm just glad to get that out to the public.
(Don't get me wrong, scouting is great, but its just the people who are in it are the ones who brought it onto themselves if they get caught)

[cezanne]

Re: DOE And the Scouts

Churches are allowed to use public facilities such as elementary schools. The agreement is usually that no group is allowed to stay for more than three years, so that no group starts to think of a site as its own. Before New Hope met at Farrington, it was meeting at the Stan Sheriff Center at UH-Manoa. I imagine its time at Farrington must be close to up and wonder where it will move next.

I'm pretty sure every group that uses facilities pays the school for the use, but then I'm not sure. If the facility is there for public use, it could very well be free. I've had organized functions at school basketball courts and never paid a cent.

I have no doubt at all that an atheists group or a gay rights group would have no problem getting the use of a facility.

Before the church I go to got its own place, it had to pay monthly rent for use of a public school's facilities. I'm sure that's how it works for all churches who use the schools.

[alohabear]

Re: DOE And the Scouts

[
I have no doubt at all that an atheists group or a gay rights group would have no problem getting the use of a facility.[/QUOTE]


Yeah... but could a anti-gay(which what the scouts are) group use the facility?