Menehune Fishpond for sale!

[Miulang]

One of the most awesome archeological sites on Kauai, the Menehune Fishpond, is for sale. It's on the market as part of a larger parcel of land (102 acres) for $12 million. Since it's on conservation land, whoever the next owner is can only put up one house, but it's still a shame that even though it's on the National Register of Places, it'll remain kapu.

This is the kind of thing the State should be buying up, in partnership with a group like Nature Conservancy, so it can never again be sold to a private party.

Miulang

[kimo55]

Re: Menehune Fishpond for sale!

be buying up, in partnership with a group like Nature Conservancy, so it can never again be sold to a private party.

Miulang

aloha, Miu

ownership by the state of things like this is not a good idea.

They were in control of Heeia area and were about to sell it to some developer, but citizen groups stepped in and petitioned it to remain as is, and additionally, promised to renew it to original "ancient" condition and eradicate invasive plant species, etc.. (which they now do.)

No, Miu, I am afraid if the state had control of it we would hear all kinds of promises, then they would be broken, and the landmark status would change, it would be rezoned and the state would claim, since it is filled with silt, it must be taken over by some developer or at the least, a public park be erected there. and the resultant pave over job and multitudinous signage all over the place and redundant lighting glaring all over the neighborhood all night long... this is what we would see. This is what they do when they have their eye on private propery or land they want. Through condeming the property and eminent domain, they ruin and despoil the sacred aina.

[Miulang]

Re: Menehune Fishpond for sale!

Then I think the Nature Conservancy should work with some local Kauai groups to perhaps get the family to deed over just the fishpond area to the Nature Conservancy in perpetuity so the fishponds can be preserved. Since the mangrove have kind of overtaken much of the pond, maybe some local kanaka maoli groups would be willing to put in some sweat equity to restore the pond to its past glory. Or the people on Kauai could organize a watchdog group or have the Association of Fishponds organize something on Kauai to save the spot. On Maui, theAssociation of Fishponds of Maui is restoring Ko'ie'ie in Kihei which is a beautiful fishpond. It's our favorite swimming hole, too. It's taken many years of fundraising and an all-volunteer group to finally start restoration, but they started the process in March and will be done in about 2 years.

Miulang

[Paakiki]

Re: Menehune Fishpond for sale!

Why does the state have to own the fishponds? If a private individual has owned it all these years, what gives the state, or any other government agency, the right to it. If a group of people want to buy the property and open it to the public, they can buy it just like anyone else.
In addition, Kauai county can condemn the property if they can prove it is for the public good.

[Miulang]

Re: Menehune Fishpond for sale!

The family that's selling the land could donate it to the Nature Conservancy and get some tax credits for doing so. The Nature Conservancy is about the only nongovernmental, nonprofit organization that apparently gives a rat's okole about preserving what is left of ancient Hawai'i wilderness.

Miulang

[Paakiki]

Re: Menehune Fishpond for sale!

When Nature Conservancy buys land and "sells" it back to government, where do their profits go? To buy more land? When governmant owns land the tax basis shrinks making all of us pay more taxes for an ever growing government, not to mention the additional taxpayer cost of maintaining government land. Government is the largest landowner in the western states and Hawaii and is historically a poor steward of the land.
Those who advocate government takeover of more private lands say it is to preserve culture, history,etc.. Does that mean private, non-government cannot or has not? If so, why do we want to preserve something in private hands for generations. Seems contradictory to me.

[Miulang]

Re: Menehune Fishpond for sale!

When Nature Conservancy buys land and "sells" it back to government, where do their profits go? To buy more land?

The Nature Conservancy does sell some of the land it is gifted with, and the proceeds of the land sale are used to purchase lands like Mo'omomi on Moloka'i which contains irreplaceable Hawaiian 'iwi and ancient artifacts. The Nature Conservancy doesn't allow the casual tourist to visit the site; one has to make arrangements to be escorted by a Nature Conservancy guide.

If the Menehune Fishpond were offered to the Nature Conservancy, it would not sell the real estate. It has special provisions in its legal charter which allow it to accept land designated for conservation which it cannot sell.

Miulang

[Paakiki]

Re: Menehune Fishpond for sale!

Nature Conservency bought Kahuku Ranch in Kau and sold it to the US Government to double the size of Hawaii Volcano National Park. Kahuku Ranch was owned by Damien Estate which had most or all of it's assets with First Hawaiian Bank. The President of First Hawaiian Bank's brother has been the campaign chairman for Senator Daniel Inouye for many years.
Kahuku Ranch was on the market for years - Damien Estate had to divest its holdings per provisions in the estate - and the price paid by Nature Conservency which was subsequently paid by the government, was no way close to offers from private parties. Who negotiated the price and who determined the fair markey value?
Kahuku Ranch was absorbed into the Hawaii Volcanoe National Park "to preserve near extinct plants" and yada, yada, yada. HVNP did not have enough operating money to maintain the original park and fight ever increasing fires. As far as most know, the operating budget was not increased to absorb the additional cost of double the responsibility. Simply understood by most locals, this purchase was a "taking of private property" sought by a very small group of people. It removed a large portion of taxable land base, preserves a huge chunk of land for the forseeable future as a playground a select group of people and further increases the holdings of the largest and most irresponsible land holder in Hawaii - the government.
State Senator Kokubun wants the state to use state taxpayer money for his "legacy lands" which he feels should be preserved. The County of Hawaii has just voted to take $250,000 of property tax money per year to "buy" their version of lands that need to be preserved. The decision as to which private lands to confiscate will come from a group of 9 unelected citizens.
I know of no public outcry for government to buy more land with taxpayer money, ANYWHERE. Do we see a pattern here? Do we see a trend? For what purpose? How many special interest groups are in control of our money?

[Miulang]

Re: Menehune Fishpond for sale!

Remember the song by Judi Collins "They paved paradise and put up a parking lot?" Well, that's what's going to happen to Hawai'i if citizens don't start doing something about stopping rampant development.

If Oahu was completely developed, why would a tourist want to drop big bucks to visit when they could save the airfare and go to LA? If places like Kilauea Lighthouse or Haleakala Crater were owned privately, how many people would be able to go visit? What would happen to the nascent "ecotourism" business that's just developing in the aina?

As for the Menehune Fishpond and its conservation status, I doubt there will be many interested parties, simply because most people want virgin land to put up housing developments so they can make money. Since only one house can be built on that 102 acre property, it would take a pretty special person (like the one who purchased the ahupua'a on Molokai from McAfee a couple of months back) to want to buy it for any price since most of that land cannot be developed.

Miulang

[kimo55]

Re: Menehune Fishpond for sale!

Remember the song by Judi Collins "They paved paradise and put up a parking lot?" Miulang

dayYUM! and all these years, I thought "Big Yellow Taxi" was a Joni Mitchell song!

[Miulang]

Re: Menehune Fishpond for sale!

dayYUM! and all these years, I thought "Big Yellow Taxi" was a Joni Mitchell song!

Heh. Judi/Joni. The point is, without controlled growth, there will be water shortages, problems with opala, more traffic congestion...the Hawaiian ecosystem can only sustain so many people. Open spaces are necessary to give nature a chance to recover.

Miulang

P.S. welcome back, Kimo

[kimo55]

Re: Menehune Fishpond for sale!

The point is, without controlled growth, there will be water shortages, problems with opala, more traffic congestion...the Hawaiian ecosystem can only sustain so many people. Open spaces are necessary to give nature a chance to recover.

yep. My soap box rants exactly. lastest news is our palm trees are being decimated by many things in Honolulu; rot caused by too much development enroaching on their root system, constant shaking caused by traffic and nonstop construction... sad.
unbridled development will be the death of our islands.

P.S. welcome back, Kimo

t'aaanx, eh!

[Paakiki]

Re: Menehune Fishpond for sale!

It's very convenient to quote some song to defend bad public policy. Fact is, 48% of all Hawaii land is zoned Conservation and 47% is zoned ag., hardly fitting the description of a paved over paradise. Because Oahu appears to be crowded is more a reflection of government not keeping up with adequate infrastructure and senseless laws demanded by eco-activists than the need to impose more bad public policy.
Our Hawaiian ecosystem is not the issue. If we have citizens who are held accountable for what they do, we wouldn't have an opala problem. Dirty people make rubbish.
The water situation is managable on many islands, Oahu may be at a saturation point however. I love the "don't waste water" ads. How can we waste water? Where does it go when it is wasted?
Government has a multitude of ways to keep open spaces. They've been using it for years. Zonings, building restrictions, condemnation, building permit process, etc are but a few ways they can use now. We do not need a select group of unelected individuals to decide what open space we need.
Supposed planned growth or "Smart Growt" as it is sometimes called is a disaster wherever it is imposed. As we can see on every island, limiting growth only reduces the supply of housing and drives up the prices. Than, politicians sheshe all over themselves wondering how our youngsters can afford to buy a home and live in Hawaii. Their remedy? Impose more stupid laws, ie. Bottle Bill, Gas Cap, etc.

[kimo55]

Re: Menehune Fishpond for sale!

It's very convenient to quote some song to defend bad public policy.

as convenient as it is applicable.

Our Hawaiian ecosystem is not the issue.

it should be.

If we have citizens who are held accountable for what they do, we wouldn't have an opala problem. Dirty people make rubbish.

ah, rubbish.
clean people create rubbish, too.

I love the "don't waste water" ads. How can we waste water?

don't ask that question! We have too many people finding ways to waste water as it is!

[Miulang]

Re: Menehune Fishpond for sale!

It's very convenient to quote some song to defend bad public policy. Fact is, 48% of all Hawaii land is zoned Conservation and 47% is zoned ag., hardly fitting the description of a paved over paradise. Because Oahu appears to be crowded is more a reflection of government not keeping up with adequate infrastructure and senseless laws demanded by eco-activists than the need to impose more bad public policy.
Our Hawaiian ecosystem is not the issue. If we have citizens who are held accountable for what they do, we wouldn't have an opala problem. Dirty people make rubbish.
The water situation is managable on many islands, Oahu may be at a saturation point however. I love the "don't waste water" ads. How can we waste water? Where does it go when it is wasted?.

Love your name. The so-called "ag" land is being reduced significantly by those developers who apply for (and receive) zoning for "truck farms" of an acre or two. This means if I have a backyard garden, I can qualify to build on ag land. Huh??? If the majority of people have to fit on 2% of all the non-exempt land in Hawai'i, then if people were logical, some of them would move away from the ratrace if it was too expensive to live there (and let me tell you, there are thousands of ex-pats up here who made the tough decision to leave their families so they could have a better life up here).

When the next shipping strike comes along and it's a really long one and they have to start air freighting in your groceries and you have to pay through the nose is when you'll start yelling about the fact that you can't raise or make anything that sustains life in Hawaii. When the tourists stop visiting, what will the state's economy look like? What would take its place?

The more people you have, the more resources you will use, which means at some point, Honolulu will have water rationing (and not just because of an especially hot summer like a few years ago, but every single day). Honolulu will have no place for the opala. What will the State do? Try to barge the opala up here to the Mainland (as the City and County of Honolulu was considering this last year)? Dump it in the ocean? Maui County is having water problems (they have to close down a shaft that could produce about 25% of the water needed by Central Maui because the structure is too dangerous to maintain), and Craig can tell you about worrying that there is enough rainfall to fill his catchment system in Ke'eau. And maybe there's nothing the State can do...it might just be related to something called "global warming" and the degradation of the environment by everyone everywhere.

What happens when alien species overtake all native populations of flora and fauna? What will Hawaii become then?

Oh, and your comment about Honolulu not building enough infrastructure to keep up with the population growth? Well, why didn't somebody(ies) do something about that while the ex-Mayor was spending the money on beautification projects? Kinda too late to punish him now, I think. And it's not fair to blame the Hanneman administration for wanting to do what's right by the County by repairing sewer systems and fixing potholes and other infrastructure improvements. Those things cost money.

Miulang