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  • Property taxes on Oahu

    I'm really surprised that the tax paying citizens of Oahu haven't really gotten on the case of the County Council about the exorbitant property taxes kama'aina retired homeowners have to pay. The older people are not about to sell their homes just for the profit, because if they did, where could they go?

    On Maui, my parents have a second house in Kula (probably worth over a million dollars now because it's on 2/3 acres of farmable land and has a view of Kihei and Wailea). Because Maui County has granted tax relief to homeowners who are retired, my dad says he only pays about $700 annually for that property. He doesn't rent it out or anything (about the only people who stay up there in the house for more than a day are me and my kane when we visit).

    The City and County of Honolulu really should do something to help the retired kama'aina stay in their own homes. I don't think they object to paying a property tax, but $1,600 on an old home with no improvements? Hmmm...

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  • #2
    Re: Property taxes on Oahu

    It is rather astounding that you have decided to speak against taxes in this topic while being a continual cheerleader for more taxes in the rail topic. A "No New Taxes" policy means just that... opposition to all new taxes and fees at every level of government.

    State and local government has to learn to live within its means. Not take more money away from taxpayers.

    The City and County of Honolulu will not grant any of us tax relief because it has to pay for the huge debt and accesses put upon the city by former Democrat party mayor Jeremy Harris. We will have to pay more in the future because of the new debt service rail will cause to the city in Honolulu as it is being championed by current mayor and Democrat, Mufi Hannemann.

    Property taxes will increase even more, especially for people who will be unfortunate enough to be living near the proposed rail route (wherever that will be) as speculative development will force property values to go higher and in the end, we the property owners have to dish out even more money beyond the high rates we now pay... why? Because of the rail!!!!

    What is that sucking sound coming out of people's wallets? More taxes. More costs. More liberal agenda.

    Stop the madness now.

    I'm still here. Are you?

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    • #3
      Re: Property taxes on Oahu

      Well, if this makes you feel any better, I pay about $6,000 a year in property taxes in California.

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      • #4
        Re: Property taxes on Oahu

        California's property taxes is a California problem. We have Hawaii problems here with taxes increasing or threatened to be increased in other areas.

        I'm still here. Are you?

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        • #5
          Re: Property taxes on Oahu

          I guess property taxes were recently raised, but I also know that home values have skyrocketed at nearly incredible rates. I've seen a lot of stories lately about how Joan and James Q. Public are paying {x} percent more in property taxes this year, but how much of that is due to the rate hike, and how much is that due to a higher assessment of the home/property value?

          The KITV story seems to cite housing prices as the reason for the increase, and if anything notes that the city hasn't lowered tax rates in an effort to bring relief... which isn't the same as a hike (though arguably still a failing of our elected leaders).

          And for Mel's benefit, this isn't a rhetorical pinko liberal question, it's an honest one. If my home's value went up, say, 30 percent in value in the last year, and my property tax went up by about the same amount, I'd be hard pressed to know whether to blame real estate agents and speculators or the city. If my home's value went up 20 percent but my taxes went up 50 percent, well, that's another ball of wax entirely.

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          • #6
            Re: Property taxes on Oahu

            The mayor is a Democrat. 8 of 9 City Council Members are Democrats. Will they lower the property tax rates? I don't think so. All they want to do is maintain it where it is and continue to take more of our money through property tax and soon, the rail tax. Lowering tax rates is something Democrats generally don't do.

            I'm still here. Are you?

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            • #7
              Re: Property taxes on Oahu

              So did property tax rates go up? Or did simply home prices go up, meaning that the amount collected in tax went up proportionally? Does anyone have an answer to my question that's not a partisan chant?

              Okay, here's one answer, which I remember now. The $600,000 threshold. Five years ago, such a cutoff would seem to affect only the upper middle class. Of course, now everyday folks are in homes that are worth more than that, and they haven't done a thing but watch their neighbors' yards fill up with "For Sale" signs.

              So. Both tax hikes and housing prices are to blame for paying more.

              As for the whole Democrats Are Evil thing, I suppose it's irrelevant that a Republican governor signed the bill? Signed it, mind you, not vetoed and faced an override, and not "let it become law without her signature," which is usually how a governor will let an odious law get on the books...

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              • #8
                Re: Property taxes on Oahu

                Well now that you have mentioned it PZ, yes, people within the GOP are not very happy with the recent actions taken by the Governor. The increase in the conveyance tax was the first sin she committed in terms of breaking the Americans For Tax Reform tax pledge that she signed in 2002. She compounded that by letting the GE Tax become law.

                Definitely the business community is very angry at the Governor, legislators, the mayor and city councilmembers who supported the conveyance tax increase and the GE Tax increase.

                Taxes cannot be looked upon in a vacumn. All of the money is being sucked out of the same places no matter what tax is increased (or more taken as this property tax issue goes).

                This is what contributes to Hawaii's miserable, continuing reputation as being a tax hell.

                I'm still here. Are you?

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                • #9
                  Re: Property taxes on Oahu

                  I think with the State's booming economy, it and the Counties can still provide property tax relief for kama'aina who own their own homes and who live on fixed incomes. Raising their taxes by 100% because the valuation on their property has soared due to market speculation is like victimizing them twice: once for living in Hawai'i where everything is more expensive in the first place, and again for being part of the group of people who worked hard in the 40s, 50s and 60s to make Hawai'i a place where lots of people want to visit.

                  Residents on Oahu should start a campaign and get Mufi's office to address this problem, just as the County Councils on the neighbor islands have been doing. I see no reason why the Council can't "reward" homeowners through property tax rebates as long as the economy is good. Saving for a rainy day is one thing, but there's also a temptation to tap into any unused money for unnecessary things. All governments should run on balanced budgets, and in doing so, they should be looking out for the people in their constituency first.

                  The people who are now in their 70s and 80s or older don't want to have to move from the houses they've lived in for years. They just want to spend their last years in those houses. If they can't afford the taxes, will they have to sell and become transients too? Would you want that for your kupuna? Maybe that's one of the reasons why there are so many multigenerational households in Hawai'i: it's an economic necessity for retired people who can't afford the property tax and for working people who can't afford high rents.

                  Miulang


                  P.S. This is not a Democrat v. Republican, liberal v. conservative issue. It's an issue of what's fair, and penalizing our grandparents for wanting to live out their last years in their own home is not fair.
                  Last edited by Miulang; July 26, 2005, 09:58 AM.
                  "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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                  • #10
                    Re: Property taxes on Oahu

                    Originally posted by Miulang
                    This is not a Democrat v. Republican, liberal v. conservative issue. It's an issue of what's fair, and penalizing our grandparents for wanting to live out their last years in their own home is not fair.
                    It may not be political issue to someone who has no say on who got voted into the City in recent years. The people who were voted to the City Council and to the Mayor's office have been predominantly Democrats, even though the elections became non-partisan. We all know who the players are. Who is to blame for increasing property taxes a few years ago? Democrat council people and the former Democrat mayor.

                    Everyone should get a property tax break, not only the kupunas. Property taxes and increased values hit EVERYONE including the kupunas, businesses, new home owners, renters, etc.

                    None of the people in Hawaii should continue to pay for the increased spending and shortfalls perpetuated by the City and County government.
                    Government has to learn to live within its means.

                    I'm still here. Are you?

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                    • #11
                      Re: Property taxes on Oahu

                      Originally posted by pzarquon
                      So did property tax rates go up? Or did simply home prices go up, meaning that the amount collected in tax went up proportionally? Does anyone have an answer to my question that's not a partisan chant?
                      It is my impression that the property tax rate has stayed the same, and that tax "bills" are going way up because everyone's properties are being assessed at much higher values.

                      I think I read or saw on some news source that the last time the rate was changed was back during the 90's economic downturn when depressed property values caused the tax revenue to drop so much that the city government raised the tax rate in order to compensate. But now that there's a real estate boom, the higher tax rate is really hurting the property owners. So one would think that a caring government looking out for the interests of its citizens would alleviate the pain by reversing the tax hike of the 90s. But Mufi said that it won't happen because Jeremy Harris was a bad bad man for getting the city into some debt (Mufi blames everything on Jeremy).

                      Screw the overtaxed masses -- Mufi wants his choo choo train, and he wants you and me to pay for it, and Lingle doesn't have the backbone to stop him.
                      Last edited by mapen; July 27, 2005, 02:47 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Property taxes on Oahu

                        Originally posted by mapen
                        Screw the overtaxed masses -- Mufi wants his choo choo train, and he wants you and me to pay for it, and Lingle doesn't have the backbone to stop him.
                        Exactly. They all want to take MORE money out of our wallets. It is appalling that they cannot live within their own means with the taxes they already collect. We all have to live within our own means as individuals or as businesses.

                        I'm still here. Are you?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Property taxes on Oahu

                          Maybe it's all shibai and meant to silence the critics, but it does sound like Mufi is willing to at least look at property tax relief for homeowners in the City and County of Honolulu.

                          Miulang
                          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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                          • #14
                            Re: Property taxes on Oahu

                            To answer Pzarquon's question about rates or values going up, here's a paragraph from the Advertiser article Miulang cited:
                            Even though the property tax rates have remained the same in recent years, skyrocketing values have pushed up the bills.
                            I can vouch for that. Ours is up $500 this year over last.
                            http://www.linkmeister.com/wordpress/

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                            • #15
                              Re: Property taxes on Oahu

                              Now the City Council is thinking about raising the limit on how much money a household earns (up to $50,000) to help provide some tax relief for Oahu homeowners.

                              I doubt that's going to help many people, especially the ones with 2-income families because many would earn more than that $50k cap. I think they have to raise that cap higher, say to maybe $60k, and then also lower the tax rate from 4% to 3.5%, and then put a limit on how much the tax can go up in one year.

                              Miulang
                              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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