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Pua'i Mana'o
August 7th, 2005, 09:16 PM
</acting like a pa'u queen>

alooooooooooooooha!

I am Pua'i Mana'o, and like many here I live in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. I am married, have a couple of keiki, am part-Hawaiian and my keiki are enrolled in a Kula Kaiapuni.

We need some Hawaiian icons--some triangles down the face, or two doing a honi, or a tiki head....

I look foward to making my own threads around here and getting to know you all!

aloha,
Pua'i

kimo55
August 7th, 2005, 09:19 PM
We need some Hawaiian icons--some triangles down the face, or two doing a honi, or a tiki head....

welcome.


buuuttt...


a "tiki head" is not a Hawaiian icon.

Glen Miyashiro
August 8th, 2005, 08:43 AM
a "tiki head" is not a Hawaiian icon.But those flat Russian paintings of Jesus, aren't they called icons? If a picture of Jesus is a Christian icon, then wouldn't a picture of a tiki be a Hawaiian icon?

kimo55
August 8th, 2005, 08:52 AM
But those flat Russian paintings of Jesus, aren't they called icons? If a picture of Jesus is a Christian icon, then wouldn't a picture of a tiki be a Hawaiian icon?
a 'tiki' is not Hawaiian. it's like relabelling a hula wahine... well sumpin like,
"boola boola chika"

There is no such word as
"tiki"
in the Hawaiian language.
She may be referring to ki'i akua.
an image of a Hawaiian God. but still as my miles of ranting and raving here on da t'reads proclaim, the image of akua should not be used as simple general decor.
further, what would someone want with triangles down the face?
what does she mean?
she wants a mano tooth tat?
Is her aumakua the shark?



("tiki" has such a negative connotation now, with many kama'aina, due to the mainland tiki culture turning it into a fad or goofy cartoonish party theme.)

Glen Miyashiro
August 8th, 2005, 08:58 AM
a 'tiki' is not Hawaiian.OK, that's true. Let me rephrase.

But those flat Russian paintings of Jesus, aren't they called icons? If a picture of Jesus is a Christian icon, then wouldn't a picture of a ki'i akua be a Hawaiian icon?


but still as my miles of ranting and raving here on da t'reads proclaim, the image of akua should not be used as simple general decor.Aww, sez you Kimo. I'd put one up next to my Buddy Jesus and my Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Buddha dolls. Hey, does anybody know where to get a Kung Fu Grip Mohammed? :D

Glen Miyashiro
August 8th, 2005, 09:00 AM
</acting like a pa'u queen>

alooooooooooooooha!

I am Pua'i Mana'o, and like many here I live in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. I am married, have a couple of keiki, am part-Hawaiian and my keiki are enrolled in a Kula Kaiapuni.Oh yeah, and aloha, Pua'i! As you can see, we're one big happy ohana here. :rolleyes:

Pua'i Mana'o
August 8th, 2005, 01:17 PM
BUT I meant the mana-less tiki of the 20th century food and beverage industries, which were inspired (ripped-off) of our time-immemorial ki’i. However, the tiki keeps none of the historical protocols, names, mana, etc. These have evolved into its own addition to the latter-day lexicon as “tiki”. Yeah, and up for derision, sure! I would not disagree. But I have no ethical problems ripping off a rip-off, kwim? For our ancestors, our people and our own families weren't just about the highest forms of protocol—we had senses of humour, handled hana ‘ino (and had hana ‘ino others; we not perfect!), threw (and were thrown) off the pali….

I was merely perpetuating a age-old Hawaiian practice of ho'ohenehene. ;-)

My pilikia, however, started when I called the icons “Hawaiian”. Although it can be argued that “Hawaiian” as a title is up for debate itself, as “Hawaiian” is not a ‘Hawaiian’ word, (mea Hawai’i, or simply Hawai’i is the way to say Hawai'i through the ‘olelo)…but then again, I didn’t know how deep we go here…that said, this was a good check for me, mahalo nui.

Either way, if the concern is that my using the term “tiki” is out of fear that I am perpetuating something terrible, as in the disembowelment of our ancestors for example, e kala mai! No such intention exists on this end of the keyboard. I merely wanted to be light-hearted in my intro.

Never wanting to insult our culture...me ke aloha,

Pua’i

Glen Miyashiro
August 8th, 2005, 01:28 PM
Pua'i -- nah, nemmind. Das' just Kimo, he's kinda sensitive and humorless about tiki and ki'i. E komo mai.

lurkah
August 8th, 2005, 01:30 PM
Never wanting to insult our culture...me ke aloha,

Pua’i

As you found out much too soon, tita, get one resident wana insai dis place dat you just gotta watch out where you step bumbai you going get poke. :p But a'ole pilikia...just go mimi ontop da buggah anden bumbai pau. :D

Miulang
August 8th, 2005, 01:30 PM
Hui Pua'i:
No hilahila, Tita! We just like one big, normally dysfunctional ohana. :D
Kanaka maoli and locals who support their cause have a biiiig job ahead of us to try to educate people who don't understand why we say there can be no equality if there is no justice. That's the only way malihini will know that there is no such thing as a tiki and why the ki'i were so important to the religion of the kanaka maoli.

Miulang

1stwahine
August 8th, 2005, 01:34 PM
Aloha and welcome to our OHANA! I see you've met some of the regulars. No pun intended. LOL

Auntie Lynn

Glen Miyashiro
August 8th, 2005, 01:40 PM
my keiki are enrolled in a Kula Kaiapuni.Wow, that's great. How are they doing? Tell us more!

Pua'i Mana'o
August 8th, 2005, 01:56 PM
Mahalo everyone! I have to say that I completely agree with Kimo. Truth be told, I share the same trigger (along with many more) about Perpetuating Pololei™.

(this is going to be my marketing slogan some day soon. No tell HVCB!)

As with any community, o/l or in r/l, I need to figure out how to communicate as best as possible. Wop my own jaws on this one! =)

As for my own children in Kaiapuni, overall I am quite pleased with their progress. As with any parent who is involved in their children's education, this is a topic I can spend day and night talking about...

aloha,
Pua'i

Palolo Joe
August 8th, 2005, 03:47 PM
("tiki" has such a negative connotation now, with many kama'aina, due to the mainland tiki culture turning it into a fad or goofy cartoonish party theme.)I don't know about the "many" part, but it does carry a negative connotation among the hyper-sensitive kama'aina out there.

kimo55
August 8th, 2005, 04:08 PM
I don't know about the "many" part,

I do.


but it does carry a negative connotation among the hyper-sensitive kama'aina out there.
for good reason.

lurkah
August 8th, 2005, 04:10 PM
Wop my own jaws on this one! =)

Oh, so you're that old, eh? :p

kimo55
August 8th, 2005, 04:10 PM
Aloha and welcome to our OHANA! I see you've met some of the regulars. No pun intended. LOL

Auntie Lynn
Hey! stop with those invisible puns!

1stwahine
August 8th, 2005, 04:24 PM
o wat if dey invisble? badda you? lurkah wea you stay? i need help to bust up' somebody...buggah to big from drinking beer and eating rabbits! ;)

kimo55
August 8th, 2005, 04:27 PM
o wat if dey invisble? badda you?
shuah, boddah me. no can tell whacoo tahkin about.

('course, why should I expect to start, now?)

ugh. rabbits. keep THAT invisible.

Pua'i Mana'o
August 8th, 2005, 04:58 PM
Oh, so you're that old, eh? :p


Sheesh! It's not like me and Haloa were high school classmates or anything...

Pua'i Mana'o
August 8th, 2005, 05:03 PM
I do.

for good reason.


I kako'o your good reasons. But how do we draw the line between when a subject is sacred wale no vs when employing a sense of humor is acceptable? I am not looking for a right or wrong answer, but chance favors a prepared mind when negotiating communication land mines.

me ke aloha,
Pua'i

============
edited to fix a glaring error.

lurkah
August 8th, 2005, 05:47 PM
Sheesh! It's not like me and Haloa were high school classmates or anything...

Was Haloa da one wit da juju lips?? :p

kimo55
August 8th, 2005, 05:53 PM
I kako'o your good reasons. But how do we draw the line between when a subject is sacred wale no vs when employing a sense of humor is acceptable?


some things always steh kapu.
No like da kapu, no steh goin dat direction. go make fun some odda things, den.
But no go insai da heiau, and give da razberry at da kine.

Pua'i Mana'o
August 9th, 2005, 08:51 AM
some things always steh kapu.
No like da kapu, no steh goin dat direction. go make fun some odda things, den.
But no go insai da heiau, and give da razberry at da kine.


What kapu? What heiau? How is making fun of mana-less kitsch a hewa?

kimo55
August 9th, 2005, 09:04 AM
What kapu? What heiau? How is making fun of mana-less kitsch a hewa?
near-figuratively speaking.




****

what "mana-less kitsch"?


ya see, that's the point. When an image of Ku or Lono is now considered "kitsch" or even "mana-less".... or even called a 'tiki"....

Pua'i Mana'o
August 9th, 2005, 11:48 AM
what "mana-less kitsch"?


ya see, that's the point. When an image of Ku or Lono is now considered "kitsch" or even "mana-less".... or even called a 'tiki"....

I kako'o piha your mana'o, for why should that what was sacred be allowed to be debased?

Yet...it has evolved, and distinction blurs over time. One example, if you go to Polynesian Cultural Center, you get paper masks on a stick with a smiley face in the style of a tiki to be handed out to anyone and everyone. And through their own ho'omana, they mean no harm by manufacturing and distributing these pa'ani tiki.

Now, its origins are of the ki'i, but it is no ki'i akua. I prefer to take the practical view and call it a tiki because a ki'i akua is something I would not touch being as I am a wahine, nor would I redraw, kakau, etc.

And because I cannot go back in time and fight alongside Kekuaokalani and Manono for the preservation of the kapu system, the best way I know how to live as a Y2K kanaka is to be pragmatic between the balance of na'au and 'ikena.

Let us recognize the difference between authentic and a cheap imitation when we see it. And know how to mahalo the difference between the two. One deserves reverence for they are ancient and the sacred but never fear the swap meet sale--for fearing is a way of giving mana.

ma waho o keia, he mea nui e malama i ka pili ma'ema'e ma waena o kakou a e hui kala mai i ka'u i 'olelo hewa ai. 'O ke kanaka he kanaka wale a na ke Akua e malama i ka mea maika'i a ne ke Akua e wawahi i ka mea ho'oholomua 'ole.

me ke aloha,
Pua'i

kimo55
August 9th, 2005, 12:02 PM
>Yet...it has evolved, and distinction blurs over time.

no, it has de volved.

> if you go to Polynesian Cultural Center, you get paper masks on a stick with a smiley face in the style of a tiki to be handed out


wot now?

Palolo Joe
August 9th, 2005, 10:45 PM
I prefer to take the practical view Finally... someone to balance out all of the hot air being blown by some users on these boards. Mahalo plenty Pua'i Mana'o for joining in on the conversation.

Pua'i Mana'o
August 16th, 2005, 12:24 PM
Mahalo everyone. I keep meaning to come back to this post and tie it up.

I grew up on Hawaiian homesteads, married another DHHL leasee, and have kids who are all over 1/2 Hawaiian (we grew learning fractions and % based on "how much is each of your nationalities"). My kane and I each measure our Chinese and European ancestries in 8ths and 16ths. My kids all currently attend Hawaiian immersion schools. I took several years of Hawaiian language at the university. My husband took classes, but doesn't ~dig it~ to the degree that I do (I cruise nupepa.org almost daily, because reading old newspaper scoops of yestercentury through Hawaiian is the best way to reconcile how to live as a progressive Y2Kanaka, by understanding the choices that our kupuna faced and made). I consider our lifestyle to be bilingual. Socio-economically, our household is a combo blue-collar and white-collar small-business owner-style, involving juggling our kids' many activities and some inter-isle work commute, which happens I wanna say "seasonally". Education, living below our means, and a strong work ethic means everything to us. And, as typical of everyone in Hawai'i, I am probably "one degree of separation" (or six degrees of integration) from everyone else on this board. Finally, my kane and I are either really young baby boomers or are the oldest gen-xers.

I appreciate the welcome, and look forward to getting to know all of you better.

me ke aloha,
Pua'i