Plantation Mentality

[alohabear]

Being a lifelong Hilo resident I have found out from traveling around the state and from people who move here that Hilo (people on the eastside of the Big Island) people are the most unfriendly to outsiders( not only the haole ones). They comment on how it is hard to get jobs or co-workers keep you out of the loop because you weren’t born here. I myself have noticed the difference between people on the neighbor islands or even Kona that show more “aloha” than people in my hometown. Maybe it’s because we are not exposed to visitors like the other islands or it could be “the big fish in a small pond” deal …who knows? A friend from O’ahu once told me that he thinks it’s because that a lot of Eastside (of the BIG ISLAND) people come from old plantation families who past down from generation to generation the hate and distrust of outsiders a kind of “plantation mentality” and he says that he can always pick out a Hilo person because of this. Now I’m not putting all of us in Hilo down , I believe my friends theory on “plantation mentality” because my parents are from Kona and were independent farmers who never grew up in a “racial” camp working for “da man”. They also were mainland educated and took us kids “out of the small pond” many times. I know many people here that welcome outsiders and most have that common background of having families not brought up in the plantation mentality.
Is it the same in the former plantation areas on other islands?

Sorry to piss-off anyone....Aloha!

[Fondoo2]

Re: Plantation Mentality

Me and my wife are looking into moving to Puna and it's funny with me being white (German/English) and her being brown (Cuban/English/Asian) I used to tease her about me having to work at getting us into the better nieghborhoods because of her brownness no reality mind you just pure good humared harrasment but now the tables have turned and she's gonna have to work at getting me accepted lol!

[Surfingfarmboy]

Re: Plantation Mentality

I was in Hilo last December to make way to my old stomping grounds in Ka'u. Flew into Lyman Field and caught the airport shuttle van to rent my car that got me to Ka'u from Harper's Hawai'i. I started a conversation with the shuttle driver, ( a life-long local) and mentioned how I was an ex-Big I boy now living in RI, and when the state of RI came up, a shuttle apprentice driver who was being tutored by the driver I was talking to broke into our conversation and mentioned that he and his wife had arrived from Fitchburg, Massachusetts about 6 months earlier. Of course, he and I started talking story about New England, and of course, what brought him to the Big Island all the way from Massachusetts.

This ex-New Englander..I don't remember his name right now...think it was Mike..had nothing but good to say about the Big I. He and his wife came to the Big I with nothing more than maybe $200 bucks between them and what their suitcases could carry. Through the incredible generosity of the people of Hilo, he and his wife (both in their early 20s) each found jobs and a place to live with a reasonable rate. It also turned that his wife was pregnent..they had no clue of her pregnancy until they got to Hilo.

Mike, at that time, thought that moving to Hilo was the greatest thing he ever did. He mentioned to me that nearly everybody he came into contact with during his move to Hilo were receptive, and not at all resentful of him or his wife. He had no regrets of leaving New England and was eagerly awaiting the birth of his new child. He asked me why I ever left the Big I for the mainland...couldn't believe that anyone would do such a dumb thing!

If there is a plantation mentality, Mike, as a newcomer, hadn't experienced it during his 6 months on island, at least that is what he was telling me.

This is just one couple's experience...I can't vouch for anyone else's experience on the Big I, but it was good to hear of Mike's favorable reception in moving there.

[Miulang]

Re: Plantation Mentality

I think a lot of it deals with the prevailing culture. In those plantation camps, most of the people were from one ethnic group, although there were a few families of other ethnicities who might also live in such a camp. It was the white sugar barons who kinda forced people to live in these segregated camps. One of my great grandmas lived in Hamakuapoko (on Maui). My great grandpa was the stablemaster for the white managers. My grandma as a young girl worked as a cook and housekeeper for the white sugar managers. The camp they lived in was comprised mainly of Japanese families. Old time Japanese tend to be more reticent about meeting new people. I think the same kind of thing went on in the Filipino camps and the Portuguese camps, too. Once the different groups started intermarrying, there was less of a need for segregated camps.

Most locals do tend to be a little reticent about newcomers even today and most of it is because of cultural issues, not necessarily tied to racial issues.

The ironic thing is you also see this same kind of behavior occurring in large cities, too. Except there it's because there's no sense of community. Go figure.

Miulang

[alohabear]

Re: Plantation Mentality

I guess that they are good people and bad people everywhere....But where tourism is low ( like on the big island's east side) people tend to be more closed minded. IMO

[pzarquon]

Re: Plantation Mentality

My wife landed in Hilo sight unseen and with little grounding in local ways, and did quite well... even finding a local boy to marry. She still wants to move back there quite badly, maybe a little more than I do. There might have been the mitigating circumstance of being a UHH student (a community unto itself and certainly full of outsiders), but both her as a Florida escapee and I as a "city boy" from Honolulu have nothing but good things to say about the town.

Certainly, there were more than a few people who hated Hilo. Many of them were Hilo natives, in fact. And there were of course the transplants that just couldn't adjust to the pace, the spirit, the charming yet occasionally infuriating different-ness of the place.

So, I would strongly disagree that Hilo people, or "East Side" people, or any former plantation communities, are "most unfriendly" and "closed minded."

In fact, the plantation background can just as easily make a town more welcoming to people strugging to make a home here, because they can identify and understand. I had a poor opinion of Waipahu until I really got to know the place (and it was where my family on my dad's side first put down its O`ahu roots!).

Heck, I'd even posit the opposite of your theory: that communities that are packed with tourists may very well be the most hostile -- it's just that in those places (Waikiki, Lahaina, Kona), visitors and newcomers flat-out dominate, and the desire for their dollars is strong. You probably don't even hear the protestations of the people who actually live there over the ring of the cash registers. Heck, the only time I ever had the occasional flash of hostility against tourists as a class was when I lived smack dab in the center of Waikiki.

I would say your perceptions may very well be understandably colored by the longstanding rivalry, if not hostility, between the "Kona Side" and "Hilo Side." Which ever side you're from, there's always something wrong with the folks on the far side of the mountain. After all, since I fell in love with Hilo, I never did develop any interest or fondness for Kona...

Of course, my family is from Hawi/North Kohala, so maybe I should really just be non-partisan...

[Fondoo2]

Re: Plantation Mentality

I think there is a big difference in living and behaving toward others between big city/smalltown folks.
I lived in OC California most of my life but lived in North Carolina for one year and used to spend summers as a kid in a smalltown in Indiana(pop 1400) The difference in people is huge,Smalltown=people act real, say what they are thinking tend to be friendly and laid back.Bigcity=In a hurry,treat people like things,put on a phoney act in puplic,would rather pretend they don't see you than wave or say hello.
So I can see how it would be if you are a laid back friendly person and are around others who are the same and a person comes up looks at you like a thing flashes a false smile and makes hurried demands for service expecting that a business transaction can justify any behavior .
I know when I am visiting Puna doing relocating research I am going to have to constantly remind myself that I'm not in a hurry for anything!Luckely being friendly and real is my natural state hence always feeling like the square peg in the round hole here in OC.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Plantation Mentality

My dad was born and raised in the sugar plantations of East Hawaii. I was born and raised in Honolulu but frequented family and friends living in Hilo growing up during the hana butta days.

When I became an adult and eventually got a job, my business travels made me come to the Big Island frequently every year giving me some business as well as continued family and friend connections here.

I can truly attest to Alohabear's statements that there is this protectionist mentality here. Heck I've been around Hilo longer than a few of my new friends here yet they think I know nothing about this side of the BI. They really think I know nothing about the Hilo culture (mentality) even though I'm twice their age and have seen Hilo develop from a sleepy 5pm shutdown town to a thriving city.

It is that big fish small pond they're afraid of especially from Honolulu expatriates like myself. They're even more hostile to those coming from the mainland from even bigger ponds! The difference between me and the mainlanders coming here to East Hawaii is that I know better than to strut my big city ways. I believe it's called acclimating to the local ways.

Hiloans take pride in their isolation yet at the same time feel the disconnect from the rest of the state of Hawaii makes them feel left out. So when west Hawaii (Kona) is slowly becoming a major economic force for the Big Island, East Hawaii folks feel an even greater animosity towards outsiders including those from Kona. There's always been this grudge betweet East and West, primarily from the west where they felt second fiddle to the economic power East Hawaii (Hilo) held over them. Everything came in by barge to Hilo and trucked over to Kona.

Now as the power seats of Hawaii County's council is slowly shifting westward, Hiloans are feeling an even greater pinch as West Hawaii becomes more powerful and economically integrated with the rest of the state.

My goodness even our beloved mayor Harry Kim seems to want to jump out of his small pond and into deeper waters for his run for governor. He know the power he held came from the majority attitude of East Hawaii. With the power shift heading west, he knows he has move to a bigger pond that still embraces him...the Democratic party in a whole.

But as more and more of us from outside of Hilo come to make East Hawaii our home, there will gradually be a shift towards a more business-like economy here as policy will have to be enforced and the gentleman's handshake way of doing business slowly disappears.

And with that change in business attitude, comes a change in the way outsiders will be treated. There is a wave of change ebbing here in Hilo and soon another Tsunami will hit it's shores, I only hope the County Council of Hawaii is prepared for it's impact. Right now that protectionist mentality is gonna get swamped when big business establishes itself here and those in the power seats aren't prepared for the level of intellect that will wash over them.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Plantation Mentality

Being a lifelong Hilo resident I have found out from traveling around the state and from people who move here that Hilo (people on the eastside of the Big Island) people are the most unfriendly to outsiders( not only the haole ones). They comment on how it is hard to get jobs or co-workers keep you out of the loop because you weren’t born here. I myself have noticed the difference between people on the neighbor islands or even Kona that show more “aloha” than people in my hometown. Maybe it’s because we are not exposed to visitors like the other islands or it could be “the big fish in a small pond” deal …who knows? A friend from O’ahu once told me that he thinks it’s because that a lot of Eastside (of the BIG ISLAND) people come from old plantation families who past down from generation to generation the hate and distrust of outsiders a kind of “plantation mentality” and he says that he can always pick out a Hilo person because of this. Now I’m not putting all of us in Hilo down , I believe my friends theory on “plantation mentality” because my parents are from Kona and were independent farmers who never grew up in a “racial” camp working for “da man”. They also were mainland educated and took us kids “out of the small pond” many times. I know many people here that welcome outsiders and most have that common background of having families not brought up in the plantation mentality.
Is it the same in the former plantation areas on other islands?

Sorry to piss-off anyone....Aloha!

Aloha,

I am also Hilo-born and raised, and your post reminds me of something I recently heard a woman from Hilo say, "from Kona to Kaua'i it is more similar than different. White sand, tourist industry. But Hilo is more like a bigger Moloka'i, in terms of population proportion. As there is no dominant tourist trade, and since everyone assumes the haoles and Japanese are local residents there, they neither act, nor are treated, like tourists."

In many ways her point rang true, although I freely admit there is a sense of nostalgia I have for my beloved Hilo which helps shape my opinion.

That said, Hilo has always flown under the radar, as compared to the other isles. But it has been my experience that if I smile at a clerk at KTA in Hilo, she will look me in the eye and smile back or make a nice comment much quicker than one working in a KTA in Kona, or one in a Kahului Costco.

...and maybe its because when in Hilo, the smile emitting from my own face is a little wider and more relaxed. Because I am ~home~.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Plantation Mentality

And with that change in business attitude, comes a change in the way outsiders will be treated. There is a wave of change ebbing here in Hilo and soon another Tsunami will hit it's shores, I only hope the County Council of Hawaii is prepared for it's impact. Right now that protectionist mentality is gonna get swamped when big business establishes itself here and those in the power seats aren't prepared for the level of intellect that will wash over them.

Your points reiterate a feature published earlier this year in Hawaii Business magazine (something about Hawaii's future in the year 2020). Although it wasn't specific to any island, the point was that the trends are:
-mainlanders are moving in (its going to get less local, more Americanized)
-local population is getting older (no different than the baby boomer trends nation-wide)
-tourism and military shall remain our isles' big economic engines.

In fact, ever since I first read that article, I haven't stopped thinking about it.

-how do we adults (specifically Boomers, Gen Xers and what are they called? I am calling them Da Bebez) wrap our brains PROGRESSIVELY around these changes? For many of us, it is a d.e.e.p shift in our thinking.
-how do we raise our children to embrace these changes? (Or at the very least, embrace the challenges with a sports' fanatic fervor "Yeah! Let's play this buggah to win! </head butt>"

-what cultural nuances are we willing to give up, and what will we stubbornly retain?

-and, is this something we can even think that proactive negotiation is a remote possibility, or should we just shrug and let da buggah be?

analyzing oblivion at a rapid clip, like always,
Pua'i

[newroots]

Re: Plantation Mentality

can hilo be my home too. what does it take to be a full fledged hilo native. or local.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Plantation Mentality

To be a Hiloan you just gotta mind your own business, keep a low profile and start establishing friends in commerce and retail sales.

In conversation don't say, "well in Bigtown USA we do this way..." Can it, you're in Hilo now and no one here gives a rip how the heck the rest of the world does it.

Be open to the Aina! Embrace the land! The Big Island is rich in Mana and if you're sensitive to it, you will feel it's presence.

Know someone here you can relate to because Hilo is so isolated that having someone on the inside helps when making the transition.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Plantation Mentality

In conversation don't say, "well in Bigtown USA we do this way..." Can it, you're in Hilo now and no one here gives a rip how the heck the rest of the world does it.

Ha! I tell the same thing to people here in Honolulu, except I say Hawai'i instead of Hilo.

[lurkah]

Re: Plantation Mentality

Be open to the Aina! Embrace the land! The Big Island is rich in Mana and if you're sensitive to it, you will feel it's presence.

Know someone here you can relate to because Hilo is so isolated that having someone on the inside helps when making the transition.

This brings back some fond memories from a time I spent in Hilo around 10 years ago where I met this elderly Japanese guy who in da old Japanee style would look you up and down before deciding whether or not you were worth his time of day. Well, that all changed for me one day when he found out that I was from Kuliouou Valley on 'Oahu, which is the valley that abuts Hawai'i Kai (the invisible boundary between the poor guys and the rich guys ), which is where the old Japanee guy used to operate bulldozers and heavy equipment for Henry J. Kaiser back when Hawai'i Kai was first being built. I told him that I remembered all of that, and remembered all of that construction going on kicking up all the dirt and dust, and especially noted the fact that every vehicle and piece of equipment that Henry Kaiser owned had been painted pink, and that included his own Lincoln Continental convertible.

Talk about opening da floodgates. That old man started to talk stories with me, which also allowed him to travel back in time to them old days. What was really special to me, though, was when he told me to get in his car because we were going for a ride. So I did, not knowing where the hell we were heading to. After driving out to Mountain View, he pulled the car to the side of the highway and told me to wait in the car. About ten minutes later, he came back, got in the car and tossed me a plastic bag full of some hard things. He looked over at me wide-eyed and said, "Wassamattah you, boy? You nevah seen Mountain View stone cookies befo?" He said this as if he'd just shared with me a secret place -- Mountain View Bakery -- that only folks from the Big Island knew about.

[alohabear]

Re: Plantation Mentality

I see that most of your stories of the nice people you've met are about people who are transplanted or left the small pond and then came back or people who had roots outside the eastside pond of Hilo. Interesting