Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

[kahalabrah]

I would like to know if any other mainland-born and raised asians share my joy in relocating to Hawaii. The quality of life, being part of a true "Melting Pot" where you are not one asian among all white people (That is white people's definitition of a melting pot!). Where you are not seen as a foreigner in your own country but actually as a local. LOL!

Also, if any Hawaii-born asians have relocated to the mainland and have experienced the anti-asian racism that I did. Honest comments welcome.

[Miulang]

Re: Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

Also, if any Hawaii-born asians have relocated to the mainland and have experienced the anti-asian racism that I did. Honest comments welcome.

I was born and raised in Hawai'i until I left for college many years ago. I've had the opportunity to travel around the US and parts of Canada extensively, and never have I once been subjected to racial discrimination. Curiosity about what my ethnicity was for sure, but never out and out racism. I mean when I lived in Boston, people accepted me for who I was as a person. Same in Salt Lake City and southwestern Ohio. Maybe it's because I don't look particularly Asian (I've been mistaken for Eskimo, Mexican, Native American and Hawaiian), but even then, I haven't detected any racism per se, just questions about what my ethnicity was. As soon as I said I was born in Hawai'i, the light bulb went on and then the questions about Hawai'i started.
(Once, in Boston, when I was still using my Hawai'i driver's license as an ID, a store clerk asked me if we still lived in grass shacks! I told her no, we hadn't done that in awhile. Why, we even had inside bathrooms with flush toilets now! )

When I travelled by myself up to Haida Gwaii (the Queen Charlotte Islands...someplace I want to go back to someday...it was an awesome, spiritual experience), whenever I stopped at a store, if there was a First Nation person behind the counter, they immediately asked me if I was First Nation, too.

One place for sure I had expected stares, pointed fingers and hostile attitudes was in Murphy, NC, which is just across the border from GA and right in the middle of the Bible Belt (about 3 hours outside Atlanta, and the place they caught Erich Rudolph, the Atlanta Olympic Games bomber). I had preconceived notions that people in that little town would not welcome strangers, especially strangers who didn't look like them (shades of the Dukes of Hazzard!). But you know what? The shopkeepers and everyone I met last year were the nicest, politest and friendliest people around! And they didn't even ask what my ethnicity was or stare at me!

Kahalabrah, I think if you act like a victim and walk around with a chip on your shoulder, you will become the victim. You can't change the color of your skin, or your ethnicity, but you certainly can try to get along with the people around you, no matter where you are. I think the "advantage" (if there can be one) for Asian Americans who were born in Hawai'i and who moved to the Mainland is that we grew up in the majority, so when we get hit by the cultural shock of being in the "minority" up here, we can understand better the differences between being in the majority v. being in the minority. I don't play up my Asian roots as much as I play up the fact that I was born in Hawai'i up here. That seems to neutralize most of the perceived hostility that might exist. I imagine it would be harder for an Asian American born and raised on the Mainland to gain that kind of empathy from nonAsians on the Mainland, since saying, "I was born and raised in Glendale" doesn't quite carry the same cachet as being able to say, "I was born in Hawai'i".

Miulang

[Jonah K]

Re: Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

I would like to know if any other mainland-born and raised asians share my joy in relocating to Hawaii. The quality of life, being part of a true "Melting Pot" where you are not one asian among all white people (That is white people's definitition of a melting pot!). Where you are not seen as a foreigner in your own country but actually as a local. LOL!

Also, if any Hawaii-born asians have relocated to the mainland and have experienced the anti-asian racism that I did. Honest comments welcome.

Aloha kahalabrah,

Where exactly on the "mainland" did you grow up? I want to make sure that I don't go there by accident and it would help us to understand where you're "coming from." Racism exists in Hawai'i as well as the continental United States; however, the perpetrators and victims can be a little different from what you're used to. For instance, in Hawai'i, a relatively well-off Asian living in Kahala is more likely to discriminate against a haole from Kansas, a Pinoy from Kalihi, or a Hawaiian from Wai'anae than the other way around.

As far as the "melting pot" goes, Hawai'i is probably more of a "salad bowl" than a "melting pot." For the most part, the only ones here that "melted" are the kanaka maoli (Native Hawaiians), whose numbers were decimated by the impact of Western civilization. Many modern Native Hawaiians have ancestors that came from Europe, Asia, Africa, America, and elsewhere and are genetically quite different from the Hawaiians of a century or so ago.

In terms of Hawai'i-born Asians experiencing anti-Asian racism on the "mainland," my miniscule amounts of Japanese and Chinese blood and Polynesian phenotype probably insure that we had vastly different experiences there. However, I can tell you about the racist attitudes that some of the Asians and Asian Americans (primarily Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans) in the continental U.S. have against Pacific Islanders, Latinos, African Americans, Pilipinos, American Indians, and European Americans.

Cheers,

Jonah K

[AbsolutChaos]

Re: Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

One of the reasons I moved to HI is because up until now, I had only really been exposed to my own Indian culture, and I wanted to know more about other Asian cultures (especially food, yum, yay for food!). I've always lived in smaller places up until moving to Honolulu, other than my college years, so I was excited to live in a place where, yes, I "blend in" more, but also where I would be exposed to more cultural diversity (and warm weather, boo for snow!).

I was born in AL and spent some of my life in NJ, but the majority of my upbringing was in OH and KY. Most of the negative attitudes I encountered were due to sheer ignorance. If people asked me if I was Indian, usually the follow up question was whether or not I could do a rain dance. They had no concept of India as its own geographical location. This was mostly in the South. I also got my share of 7-11 jokes, kama sutra jokes (from guys, gee, go figure), and sterotyped assumptions about how my last name must be Patel, that as an Asian female I must be submissive and passive and firmly entrenched in gender roles (I can't cook to save my life), and that I must also either run a motel or work as a cabbie. I endured lots of jokes from well-meaning people who thought I'd enjoy listening to their attempts at a broken Indian accent, thrown in with all the stereotypes I mentioned earlier. I don't mind poking fun at Indian people and at myself, but sometimes people crossed the line. At the same time, I also knew some of the most warm-hearted, genuine people in those same areas.

I tend to see more "ignorance" from people--no matter if they are in the South, the Midwest, or even here in HI--if they have been born and raised in one single place and have never left it for any substantial amount of time (aka I'm not talking about short vacations!). This has been my general experience, but of course, there are MANY exceptions to that generalization! I guess for many such people, life has centered around their one small location, and as a result, any anomaly or deviation from what they know must be alien and mysterious and suspicious.

I'm very careful to say it was ignorance and not racism, though--I've experienced discrimination for being a woman and because of my age (I'm pretty young in my job environment and look even younger than I am), but not for being Indian, as far as I know.

My brother, on the other hand...shortly after 9-11, whenever he was walking around by himself in a mall or other public area, he said he could tell people were avoiding him or giving him dirty/suspicious looks, just because he had darker skin and "exotic" features (this was in OH). I guess I escaped most of that because I'm lighter skinned and am "generically ethnic," so most people assumed I was Mexican or Italian in the Midwest. In OH too, I went to OSU, the second largest campus in the US (our incoming Freshman class every year is rougly 10,000 people), so we are a very diverse campus in the middle of conservative America. I was reminded of the contrast in attitudes and "open-mindedness" every time I left campus for a visit home (a small city 45 min away from Columbus).

As for HI, in the almost three years I've lived here people have asked me if I'm local (until they hear me talk, lol), Greek, Iranian, and many other various, more specific, mixed ethnicities (result of that mixed salad somebody else mentioned earlier, heehee). I don't mind it--as long as people stop asking me if I do rain dances.

[kahalabrah]

Re: Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

Miulang. If you have never experienced racism and deny any anti-asian racism you are sadly in denial. I can appreciate your seemingly obliviously positive attitude, but its not reality. Since my move to Hawaii, I am a far different and much happier person. Another thing. Asian females do not suffer from the overt racism from whites that asian males do. After all, what real man would racially attack a woman? My own mother ofter sympathized with me since she rarely suffered any racism living on the mainland. My reasoning? Most asian women are potential dating material for white men!


JohahK: I live in Kahala and I'm looking to relocate after I sell my property. I do not see any racism here and I'm even friendly with my haole neighbors. I grew up on the east coast in white affluent areas. I even lived and worked in California in a very white corporate structure where I endured racism. Yes! Even in California. But I was involved in a very white-dominated business.

AbsoluteChaos: Again your viewpoint as a female may be slightly sheltered being a female vs. male. How often would you be verbally assaulted by a white guy calling you a f**king Jap?" How often would women be confronted by unfamiliar white men suddenly assuming the karate stance challenging you to fight while uttering "Bruce Lee" sounds? When I lived in Boston, I was spat upon by a white guy and called a "f**king Gook!" Get my point?

[Miulang]

Re: Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

Miulang. If you have never experienced racism and deny any anti-asian racism you are sadly in denial. I can appreciate your seemingly obliviously positive attitude, but its not reality. Since my move to Hawaii, I am a far different and much happier person. Another thing. Asian females do not suffer from the overt racism from whites that asian males do. After all, what real man would racially attack a woman? My own mother ofter sympathized with me since she rarely suffered any racism living on the mainland. My reasoning? Most asian women are potential dating material for white men!

Please don't discount AbsolutChaos' and my contributions to your question. You asked for opinions. We can only tell you our own experiences. I am not in denial and neither is she. I think she and I face more discrimination because we are women and in her case, because she's younger, and in mine, because I am older, than we do because of our ethnicity.

If you're happier in Hawai'i, good for you. But I also think you've got a chip on your shoulder that you need to talk to a professional about. That you don't see the racism in Hawai'i (as noted by one of the other posters above) means you are in denial that it exists in Hawai'i, too. Now that you're in the "majority" in Hawai'i, I certainly hope you don't take revenge on the kanaka maoli, the Filipinos, and Micronesians---all the other elements in that "salad bowl"---just because you think you can and because that's what you thought you experienced when you were in the minority. I find it interesting that you made note of not having problems with your haole neighbors. Have you interacted with local Japanese Americans, with Samoans, with Chinese, and with kanaka maoli? Do you feel the same way about all those groups of people as you do your haole neighbors?

Miulang

[AbsolutChaos]

Re: Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

AbsoluteChaos: Again your viewpoint as a female may be slightly sheltered being a female vs. male. How often would you be verbally assaulted by a white guy calling you a f**king Jap?" How often would women be confronted by unfamiliar white men suddenly assuming the karate stance challenging you to fight while uttering "Bruce Lee" sounds? When I lived in Boston, I was spat upon by a white guy and called a "f**king Gook!" Get my point?

Once again, to repeat what I said earlier, I have suffered more discrimination based on sex than on ethnicity, as far as I know. I may not have heard the phrase "f**king ___ (insert ethnicity here)," (probably because nobody can tell what exactly I am!) but I have heard plenty of "f**king stuck-up b**tch" when I turned down men who tried to hit on me--and that's men of all races. (And no, I wasn't rude to them, I was being polite when I told them I wasn't interested.) Have you heard the male equivalent excuse lately? I would definitely call that verbal assault.

I've not had men confronting me with karate moves and Bruce Lee sounds, but I've certainly been put into a head lock by someone who mistook me for his dance partner and dragged me out to the parking lot that way before his friend convinced him to release me. (My friends were afraid he would grip me tighter if they tried to intervene.) I've had guys get in my way and refuse to move as they utter insulting sexual remarks. Being "sheltered" is definitely not what I would call it. Guys have this stereotyped image of the Asian female as always smiling and submissive. The racism toward Asian females is of a different nature, and as a guy, YOU have not experienced it because you aren't a female, and yes, usually it IS more subtle, as you pointed out. Furthermore, just because it's subtle doesn't make it any more acceptable than what you have experienced.

At work, I've had ASIAN MALES treat me more condescendingly for being an Asian female, so that's also a different kind of discrimination, both ethnic AND female, especially Asian men in higher positions. Meanwhile, I usually don't experience that condescension from non-Asian males in those same positions...perhaps because they are more fearful of lawsuits that may result.

Get my point?

[kahalabrah]

Re: Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

Miulang/AbsolutChaos

Okay okay you got me there with the sexism issues. Not to discount your experience as asian women, this occurs not only in Hawaii but on the Mainland, right? I appreciate your input, btw. And I do admit I have a "chip on my shoulder" and I have been to counseling. I'm far from perfect. Discrimination of any kind, especially anti-asian discrimination really burns me up deep inside. Still.

Moving to Hawaii is part of the cure!

[Miulang]

Re: Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

No hilahila. Some readers are giving people bad ratings for certain posts because they disagree with the poster. Other people appear to have personal vendettas against some posters for some reason (poster envy?). The only time I give a bad rating is if someone disses or personally attacks someone else's character. Everything else is up for grabs and is a person's opinion. I won't fault or criticize another person's opinion or rate a post bad just because I disagree with the content. I do have a thick skin.

And I guess I must be one of those "uppity Asian females" that Kahalabrah was trying to run away from, right, Kahalabrah?

Miulang

[sinjin]

Re: Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

No hilahila. Some readers are giving people bad ratings for certain posts because they disagree with the poster. Other people appear to have personal vendettas against some posters for some reason (poster envy?). The only time I give a bad rating is if someone disses or personally attacks someone else's character. Everything else is up for grabs and is a person's opinion. I won't fault or criticize another person's opinion or rate a post bad just because I disagree with the content. I do have a thick skin.

And I guess I must be one of those "uppity Asian females" that Kahalabrah was trying to run away from, right, Kahalabrah?

Miulang

I would be content if only one had to leave a comment with a gift of negative rep. A red square with no comment seems pointless, not to mention cowardly. I would prefer that one who disagrees with me speak their mind in the forum.

Btw those "uppity Asian females" are just the sort to date outside their race in my experience. Oh, the humanity!

[Miulang]

Re: Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

Btw those "uppity Asian females" are just the sort to date outside their race in my experience. Oh, the humanity!

Heh. You're right about that one. My kane is white bread haole from NJ, although he desperately loves everything about the 'aina. I think AbsolutChaos hit the nail right on the head when she said that Asian males (not all, but some) treat Asian females like crap. And while some people may disagree (there are some really classy Asian males running around, BTW ), my own personal experience is that I am more likely to be treated as an equal by nonAsian males than by Asian ones. Culturally, I think Asian males do have a bad rep of treating their females as chattel. "Uppity Asian females" want to be respected as equals, not as possessions or servants.

Miulang

[kimo55]

Re: Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

As far as the "melting pot" goes, Hawai'i is probably more of a "salad bowl" than a "melting pot."

(rap reiplinger)

Discrimination of any kind, especially anti-asian discrimination really burns me up deep inside. Still.

Moving to Hawaii is part of the cure!

Hey! Kahala Braahhh.
have YOU ever heard of...
(gasp!)

Frank DeLima!?

(runs for cover)

[saigonwarrior]

Re: Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

Some good stuff some funny stuff. I wonder who started and continues the stereotypes of the Asian man (wimpy, treats women like crap) and asian woman (exotic and submissive). These stereotypes were never as obvious as in the movie the Joy Luck Club.

I agree with Miulang that is is up to you to make your own life wherever you live. Yes certain places definitely have more racism against Asians. I'm sure living in Texas is a different experience from living in Seattle or Hawaii in terms of racial discrimination. But it is up to the person to rise above all the junk in your envrionment and make the best of your life.

As the majority in Hawaii I'd hope we would take extra pains to make this place fair and liveable for all who want to live here. I've met many people from the mainland who have been treated badly over here cause of race or cultural reasons. It breaks my heart to see good people treated badly cause of this. I feel shame to know that I made racial cracks and particpated in some of the majority racism upon some mainland haoles in the past just because I had a disagreement with them and pulled the racial crap. Its up to me to make sure I don't do that stuff again.

We do have a ways to go in this state to make race and ethinic relations better. Joking around some sterotypes is good like Frank De Lima and even Dave Chappelle. Intermarriage is good as well. Once you see the individual all the BS sterotypes melt away. My fiancee is black and we joke about sterotypes and we appreciate the cultural and racial differences. So I don't give a crud about asian women going after white guys cause I went after my woman cause she was intellegent, tough, hot and dances good not cause she was black.

[sinjin]

Re: Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

You make some really good points. We can all practice more charity. Additionally, I suspect race mixing will be our salvation.

I wonder who started and continues the stereotypes of the Asian man (wimpy, treats women like crap) and asian woman (exotic and submissive).

OK, I'll bite. Who started them?

[scrivener]

Re: Asian Americans: Mainland vs. Hawaii viewpoints

I have to agree with Miulang and AbsolutChaos. I have traveled about the mainland and even in places where I was looked upon with curiousity (something that happens everywhere I go, come to think of it), once I engaged people in conversation, there were never problems. I think your attitude is everything in these situations. I once went to a conference in New Mexico, where college students from around the country met for a week. You could always tell the Hawaii group because it was this large patch of black-haired heads in a sea of blondes.

By the end of the week, some of us had had a wonderful time, while others of us felt alienated. I remember in one breakout session, two of our local girls were in a group of about a hundred students from elsewhere. When the students were told to grab partners they weren't already acquainted with, everyone ran about finding partners, and the two local girls were left alone to be partners with each other.

Not racism for sure, but in my breakout group, I made sure to grab someone for a partner, whereas these friends of mine -- less assertive in large groups -- found themselves isolated.

I also brought with me little snack-size packages of chocolate-covered macadamia nuts, and passed them out in common areas; it always sparked conversation and it resulted in people recognizing me and greeting me everywhere I went that week. Others in my group had similar experiences. I maintain that most people are interested in you as a person; if you give them that person to interact with, your ethnicity becomes secondary in the relationship. If you don't give them that person, all they have to go on is how you look.