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  • Pre-Contact Hawaii

    Hi, I have always been curious what a Hawai'ian marriage ceremony was like in pre-contact times. Could anyone who knows please describe?

    Also, what would some typical boys and girls, mens and womens names have been in pre-contact times, and are these names used today/

    Also, there must be a person who would be the legal soverign if the monarchy were restored, does anyone know who that person might be, and where he or she lives? Is that person accorded respect and honor due to his or her stature?

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Re: A couple of questions

    I wonder if the book "Daughters of Haumea" would answer any of these questions? It is about pre-contact Hawaiian culture, especially the women of those times.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A couple of questions

      Originally posted by Kalalau
      Hi, I have always been curious what a Hawai'ian marriage ceremony was like in pre-contact times. Could anyone who knows please describe?

      Also, what would some typical boys and girls, mens and womens names have been in pre-contact times, and are these names used today/

      Also, there must be a person who would be the legal soverign if the monarchy were restored, does anyone know who that person might be, and where he or she lives? Is that person accorded respect and honor due to his or her stature?

      Thanks!
      Aloha Kalalau,

      For the most part, there wasn’t much of a formal marriage ceremony in pre-contact Hawai'i. The maka'āinana (commoners) simply noho pū 'ana ("shacked up" without ceremony). For the ali'i (chiefly class), it was a slightly more elaborate, ie. gifts were often exchanged to signify a more "binding" marriage agreement.

      As for pre-contact male and female inoa (names), it often varied by genealogy and class. Inoa ali'i and inoa maka'āinana often told the family lineage, place or condition of birth, and possessed aspirational qualities, such as beauty, intelligence, etc. The kauwā (outcasts), on the other hand, were usually named after relatively mundane objects like rocks, trees, plants, etc. Except for the inoa used by the kauwā, most names are believed to possess mana (spiritual power). In addition, many of the inoa ali'i often bore a kapu; thus, few are used today by anyone outside of the family of the original name-bearer. While inoa kauwā like "Koa", "Pōhaku", "Pili", etc. are still commonly used, inoa ali'i like "Kamehameha", "Pauahi", "Kamāmalu", "Kalākaua", etc. are most likely to be used today for naming streets and buildings, instead of people.

      As for the person who would be the legal sovereign if the Hawaiian monarchy were restored, it depends on who you ask. Some would say that one of the Kawānanakoa's (most likely Abigail Kekaulike or Quentin Kūhiō) would probably be mō'ī (ruler) of a restored Hawaiian monarchy. However, the descendants of Kamehameha and other ali'i, such as Kaumuali'i, may have a stronger claim. Chances are, there probably would have been another "election" (like those of Lunalilo and Kalākaua) to sort it all out. For the most part, the Kawānanakoa's have several residences in Hawai'i, California, Oregon, Nevada, and a few other areas. The descendants of Kamehameha and other ali'i pretty much reside everywhere; however, you'll probably find the majority of them in Hawai'i. In terms of being accorded honor and respect due to "stature", it depends on the particular person, their personality, and the circumstances. Some demand it, while others could care less.

      Cheers,

      Jonah K
      Ā Ē Ī Ō Ū ā ē ī ō ū -- Just a little something to "cut and paste."

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A couple of questions

        Wow, thank you! That was amazingly complete and it answered some questions I have wondered about for a long time. Thanks again!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A couple of questions

          Originally posted by Kalalau
          Wow, thank you! That was amazingly complete and it answered some questions I have wondered about for a long time. Thanks again!
          'A'ole Pilikia Kalalau,

          I'm glad that I was able to answer some of your questions.

          Cheers,

          Jonah K
          Ā Ē Ī Ō Ū ā ē ī ō ū -- Just a little something to "cut and paste."

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A couple of questions

            Here is another one. Several years ago a big Pacific storm blew for quite a few days, a "Pineapple Express" as local weather people call it--they blow straight from Hawai'i to So. California. I went walking on Ocean Beach here in San Diego after the storm cleared and there was a coconut on the beach. This does not happen here. Coconuts do not grow here, the nearest are about 700 miles south in Mexico and the ocean current runs strong from north to south so it did not come from Mexico. A Hawai'ian guy was surf fishing at the time, we talked over the coconut and concluded it probably did blow/float in from Hawai'i, because the only other candidate would have been the Phillipines and that would be exceedingly unlikely.

            So this question is, is there anything in the sailing chants, the history, the lore, that indicates Polynesian sailors made it to the mainland at some time? If a coconut could make it, it seems like a well equipped sailing vessel could, too. It would not have been an easy transit, but its done regularly by modern sailors, so it does seem possible. Also, what about all those headlands up in Oregon with vaguely Hawai'ian sounding names?

            On a side note, around 1994 the Hokule'a sailed in to San Diego bay, it came down the coast from Seattle. A very interesting boat, built at half the size of an original craft, it was very impressive and beautifully constructed. A half scale ship handled the wild Oregon coast without incident, it seems likely a full scale ship could be capable of handling the difficult Northern Pacific transit.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A couple of questions

              Originally posted by Kalalau
              On a side note, around 1994 the Hokule'a sailed in to San Diego bay, it came down the coast from Seattle. A very interesting boat, built at half the size of an original craft, it was very impressive and beautifully constructed. A half scale ship handled the wild Oregon coast without incident, it seems likely a full scale ship could be capable of handling the difficult Northern Pacific transit.
              I was on the beach at Golden Gardens in Seattle when the Hokule'a and the Hawai'iloa landed here in 1994. (After that point, Hokule'a sailed south and Hawai'iloa sailed north). It was such a glorious event...to see the 2 Hawaiian voyaging canoes and their crews being welcomed and honored by the local Native American tribes at a powwow. I will never ever forget that moment and how proud I was of the kanaka maoli and the Polynesian Voyaging Society for the accomplishment. Ever since then, I have followed the Hokule'a's travels to Tahiti and NWHI on their website.

              Miulang
              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A couple of questions

                Originally posted by Kalalau
                Here is another one. Several years ago a big Pacific storm blew for quite a few days, a "Pineapple Express" as local weather people call it--they blow straight from Hawai'i to So. California. I went walking on Ocean Beach here in San Diego after the storm cleared and there was a coconut on the beach. This does not happen here. Coconuts do not grow here, the nearest are about 700 miles south in Mexico and the ocean current runs strong from north to south so it did not come from Mexico. A Hawai'ian guy was surf fishing at the time, we talked over the coconut and concluded it probably did blow/float in from Hawai'i, because the only other candidate would have been the Phillipines and that would be exceedingly unlikely.
                It could have come from Hawai‘i. Or it could have come from somewhere even further away. Flotsam drifts all over the ocean.

                And by the way, it's "Hawaiian", not "Hawai'ian". "Hawaiian" is an English word and doesn't use the ‘okina.

                So this question is, is there anything in the sailing chants, the history, the lore, that indicates Polynesian sailors made it to the mainland at some time? If a coconut could make it, it seems like a well equipped sailing vessel could, too. It would not have been an easy transit, but its done regularly by modern sailors, so it does seem possible.
                The presence of the sweet potato, a South American plant, in Polynesian agriculture suggests that there was some sort of contact between Polynesia and South America. Possibly some Polynesians made it to the Americas and back at some point.

                Also, what about all those headlands up in Oregon with vaguely Hawai'ian sounding names?
                Now those are much more recent. In the 19th century, many Hawaiians took up sailing with whalers, traders, and other Westerners, and quite a few settled in the Pacific Northwest. Hence the Hawaiian place names up there.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A couple of questions

                  When I was living in Idaho the indians that lived there (Southwestern Idaho) had a culture and folklore that reminded me of the Hawaiian Culture. The similarities were remarkable like the headdresses, stories, and even in song.

                  In Idaho there is a mountain range called the Owahee Mountain Range and from what park rangers there told me it got it's name when western explorers pointed to the mountains from a distance and asked their indian guides what the name of it was and also told them it was in the direction of Hawaii. The indian guides thought the explorers had called the mountain range Owahee so they repeated it back to them, "Owahee" and the name stuck.

                  Incidently on the slopes of the Owahee Mountains at around 10,000 feet up lives a plant remarkably similar to the Silversword found only at the summit level of Haleakala on Maui. This plant on the Owahee Mountains is a close cousin to another very similar cousin of the Silversword found at the 10,000 foot elevation of Mauna Kea on the Big Island.

                  When I went to the Ellison Onizuka Observatory/building on Mauna Kea, one of the employees told me that these cousins of the Silverswords came from the Pacific Northwest from explorers who travelled to Hawaii from there. I told them of the Owahee story and he was dumbstruck.

                  Ever since I've always had this speculation that Hawaiians have either migrated or may have even come from the Pacific Northwest and may have roots with the Southwestern American Indians. Their cultures are so parallel it's downright remarkable.
                  Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A couple of questions

                    Originally posted by craigwatanabe
                    Incidently on the slopes of the Owahee Mountains at around 10,000 feet up lives a plant remarkably similar to the Silversword found only at the summit level of Haleakala on Maui. This plant on the Owahee Mountains is a close cousin to another very similar cousin of the Silversword found at the 10,000 foot elevation of Mauna Kea on the Big Island.

                    When I went to the Ellison Onizuka Observatory/building on Mauna Kea, one of the employees told me that these cousins of the Silverswords came from the Pacific Northwest from explorers who travelled to Hawaii from there. I told them of the Owahee story and he was dumbstruck.
                    I think the silversword's ancestors arrived in Hawai‘i a lot earlier than humans did. Researchers like Gerald Carr of UH Mānoa have done genetics work on the silversword and its North American relative, the tarweed, and estimate that the silversword's ancestors arrived in the Hawaiian Islands at least a couple million years ago.

                    Ever since I've always had this speculation that Hawaiians have either migrated or may have even come from the Pacific Northwest and may have roots with the Southwestern American Indians. Their cultures are so parallel it's downright remarkable.
                    I dunno about this, but you can never rule out the idea that ancient travelers may have really gotten around. It's possible that somebody made the journey at some time. But the Hawaiians' connection to the rest of Polynesia, and the Polynesians' connection to Southeast Asia, are so strong that it seems clear that the Hawaiians' ancestral ties lie in Asia not America.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A couple of questions

                      Originally posted by Glen Miyashiro
                      I dunno about this, but you can never rule out the idea that ancient travelers may have really gotten around .

                      Eh Glen rule #1 in arguementation and debate, never concede that you don't know about the subject matter. That's grounds for forfeit in a debate.

                      If I were your adversary I'd respond to your remark in a debate, "That's right Glen you don't know and for that I accept your acknowledgement of defeat...Judge? Point for me please.

                      He he he he, yeah that's a low blow but it works! Anyway one thing I am certain of though is that there is definately similarities between the American Indian and Hawaiian folklore that's too close to be coincidental.
                      Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A couple of questions

                        That's why I'm a terrible debater -- I'm too agreeable and willing to concede on points where I'm not 100% sure of myself. What a typical secular-humanist, "reality-based community" liberal I am.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A couple of questions

                          From another thread:

                          Speaking of "mainland" (or nearly so) locations, the San Juan Islands may be of interest to Hawaiians. After all, Hawaiians had gone over there early in the San Juan Islands' history, in such trades as shepherding (the trade of one "Poalie" - possibly a "Po'ali"? - who was a Kanaka nicknamed Joe Friday). The main town of the San Juans is named for him (Friday Harbor).

                          On the "real" mainland, in fact, way, way mauka, in Idaho, there is an Owyhee County, so named because of Hawaiian fur trappers who ventured there within twenty years of the famous expedition of Lewis and Clark.

                          Owyhee is also the name of a canyon, a river, a land initiative, and a mountain range, all in what we Jerseyans consider the "Pacific Northwest".

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: A couple of questions

                            So we are talking about a civilization that extended from New Zealand to Puget Sound and maybe to South America. It does not seem like there is much popular writing or scholarly research about this, but I find it very interesting.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A couple of questions

                              Originally posted by Kalalau
                              So we are talking about a civilization that extended from New Zealand to Puget Sound and maybe to South America. It does not seem like there is much popular writing or scholarly research about this, but I find it very interesting.
                              Aloha Kalalau,

                              While it's possible that ancient Polynesians reached North and South America, few made it back to their places of origin to tell the story. For the most part, the few ancient Polynesians that made it to North or South America were probably either killed off or assimilated into the predominant culture. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the design of a Chumash tomol (plank canoe) was influenced by the design of a wa'a kaulua (double-hulled canoe), like the Hokule'a. Unfortunately, researching it would be somewhat difficult, considering the impact of the Spanish missionaries on the indigenous populations in North and South America.

                              Cheers,

                              Jonah K
                              Ā Ē Ī Ō Ū ā ē ī ō ū -- Just a little something to "cut and paste."

                              Comment

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