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  • What is "Hawaiian" to you?

    I just want to know, what does "hawaiian" mean to you? Hawaiian-blooded? married a hawaiian? born/raised here? What?

    IMO, Hawaiiian means that you're born and raised here, but also means that you have Hawaiian blood in you (but to some locals, it seems like we have hawaiian blood, even though our parents were born somewhere else).
    How'd I get so white and nerdy?

  • #2
    Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

    Imagine, for a moment, that you are in California, Nevada, Arizona, or some other US state where Native American Indians live.

    Now imagine immigrants from Japan, China, Philippines, Korea all living in that state of California, as they do today, and imagine them all trying their best to kind of/sort of/small kine pretend to be Native American Indian. Oh yeah, they still identify with some of their actual ethnicity, but on weekends, they dress up in Indian feathers and dance native dances and use a dozen or 2 Indian word in their vocabulary. These 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants from far off lands consider themselves "native". LIke Ben Cayetano himself said in his last campaign, he "Feels Hawaiian".

    Now if you saw so many recent Asian immigrants pretending to be Native American Indian in California today, most of you would find it odd at best and insulting to the native culture at worst.

    But in Hawaii, its the norm.

    This is a simple statistics issue. The Haoles who first immigrated to Hawaii knew they weren't Hawaiian and didn't try to act Hawaiian. For one, they were heavily outnumbered by the Hawaiians. The missionary types wanted nothing of the tribal culture. The whalers and others either marrried Hawaiians and joined the culture or lived as german or scottish or english immigrants living in Hawaii.

    Initially, the Asian immigrants wanted nothing of the Hawaiian culture as well. Picture brides were a necessity given the fact that men did outnumber women in the islands but they also showed the relative racism of the groups.
    Chinese, portuguese tended to marry Hawaiian women. Japanese men never stooped so low. That's why Kamehameha Schools if full of Chinese, Portuguese, Hawaiians but very few Japanese Hawaiians. Anyway, the immigrants, including the Haole immigrants, all lived in their own camps and enjoyed their own versions of their mother culture for 2 generations.

    But by WWII, the Asians imported for plantation work eventually won the demographic race and outnumbered everyone else, voted for statehood, and took control of the state via simple democratic super majority. But they didn't just take power in my opinion. Over the past 50 years, they have quietly and effectively attempted to redefine what it means to be Hawaiian and to replace it with their definition. Something along the lines of being a 2nd or 3rd generation immigrant from one of the plantation worker source countries. Straight black asian hair, asian features, asian values, toss in a couple dozen Hawaiian words to the vocabulary, speak pidgin english, and presto chango you are now a "Hawaiian".

    The definition of Hawaiian is really simple. There are barely 1000 of them.
    The definition of part-Hawaiian is really simple. Got about 300,000 of them.
    The definition of an immigrant who choses to live in Hawaii is also simple. Got about 800,000 of them. One is named Ben Cayetano.

    Aloha
    Last edited by kamuelakea; October 23, 2005, 07:19 PM.

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    • #3
      Hapa Hawaiian Airline Labor Unions

      I'm 1/4th Hawaiian, 3/4th what's considered "Haole". Since I have more Haole blood, does that make me "Haole"?

      Or as Craig once asked, "How can you be Hawaiian if you work for Aloha?"
      sigpic The Tasty Island

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      • #4
        Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

        Originally posted by kamuelakea
        Chinese, portuguese tended to marry Hawaiian women. Japanese men never stooped so low. That's why Kamehameha Schools if full of Chinese, Portuguese, Hawaiians but very few Japanese Hawaiians.
        Portuguese/Chinese(Cantonese)/Hawaiian. Ha! That's exactly what I am. I always think of Hawaiian as having Hawaiian koko. People such as my father, who are of another race but 3rd (or 2nd, 4th, whatevas) generation in the aina, I think of as a "native local." I think it's because I use part Hawaiian as a descriptive term for myself to explain who my ancestors are. Everyone born and raised in Hawai'i I consider "islanders" and of course, "local." The islands have a unique mix of all sorts of cultures more so than only Hawaiian. Being a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc generation in the aina it starts to feel like your family comes from the islands and no where else. And I understand a person can start to not relate with being Japanese, Korean, Filipino, Portuguese, etc. but at the same time I don't think it makes one a different race, and the person becomes Hawaiian. Your ancestors are your ancestors, the blood in your veins neva change. "Local" should become a new race, eh? Would make things easier. I say be proud of what you are racially AND be proud you are from Hawai'i.
        I'm disgusted and repulsed, and I can't look away.

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        • #5
          Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

          I'm Japanese (100%) and I don't consider marrying my part Hawaiian wife as "Stooping Low". Actually I think that's a bit demeaning to Hawaiian women as there are a lot of intelligent Hawaiian women out there. My wife has a masters degree, I don't.

          That brings up my original thread on Ethnicity vs Nationalism regarding the race known as Kanaka Maoli or in a less accurate term: Hawaiian. If you were 100% but was born and raised several generations removed in another country without any Hawaiian upbringing culturally speaking, are you Hawaiian anymore? By ethnical definition, the answer is yes.

          But culturally you may lack what some "Haole's" have achieved...a harmoneous relationship between their soul and the Aina of Hawaii simply by living and appreciating what Hawaii has to offer. Therefore who would be better a better caretaker of the Aina?

          So in a practical sense, to me the word or term "Hawaiian" should be: One who has a greater appreciation and respect for what this sacred place has to offer. There is no difference between a Kanaka Maoli newborn being raised in an ethnically perfect Hawaiian family and a Haole newborn being raised in the same family. Both will learn and appreciate the Aina but one has no Hawaiian blood and the other does.

          If one argues that being born a Kanaka Maoli is the only way one can be called Hawaiian then culture has no bearing at all. But if you argue that culture has everything to do with being a true Hawaiian, then ethnicity has no bearing either.

          And that begs the question? Who could be more Hawaiian, the Kanaka Maoli or the Haole. And what of the Part Hawaiian? Are they less of a Hawaiian than their Kanaka Maoli brothers and sisters?

          If the answer is no, then it is culture that made them equal to their Kanaka Maoli people and, that totally throws out the ethnicity basis for being a "Hawaiian" because anyone can learn another's culture.

          If the answer is yes, then anyone who is part Hawaiian would be considered less of a Hawaiian. Like I said in my other thread, there's gonna be a lot of pissed off Hawaiians if it is.

          Either way it's a no win situation. If no, then anyone can claim to be Hawaiian. If yes, then the greater population of Hawaiians cannot benefit from any legal decision regarding reparations or recognition.
          Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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          • #6
            Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

            Originally posted by craigwatanabe
            I'm Japanese (100%) and I don't consider marrying my part Hawaiian wife as "Stooping Low". Actually I think that's a bit demeaning to Hawaiian women as there are a lot of intelligent Hawaiian women out there. My wife has a masters degree, I don't.
            The "stooping so low" applied to the 1st and 2nd generation. Just a fact. That's why you had very very few Hawaiian/Japanese mixed people in Hawaii pre-1950s or about. But there have been Hawaiian/Haole/Chinese/Portuguese mixes for 150 years. My "Stooping so low" might be your "proud strong culture". But that would imply that the Chinese, Haoles, Portuguese weren't as proud. Whatever the reason, you cannot deny that Japanese men did not marry Hawaiian women at a rate anywhere near the rest. Only the missionary Haoles got the Japanese beat.

            Now today's generation is changing and you see more Japanese/Hawaiian mix going on. Times have changed. But the missionary haoles still da same.

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            • #7
              Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

              Originally posted by craigwatanabe

              That brings up my original thread on Ethnicity vs Nationalism
              Your essay is exactly what I refer to when describing the attempt by relatively recent immigrants to muddy the waters in defining "Hawaiian". Asians,and some Haoles, don't want my simple definition because it makes them feel more "outsider" "immigrant". They want to redefine Hawaiian as someone who "feels da aina". They can do it cuz got 650000 of them and they just keep repeating it amongs themselves until they start to believe it.

              But your general point of "What's most important about being Hawaiian, the bloodline or the actual attitude" is actually vague.

              How many of today's Hawaiian Wannabes actually go through the process of learning Hawaiian or sending their kids to immersion schools at an age when language must be developed?? I find most in Hawaii verbally Hawaiian, superficially Hawaiian but far more American, Japanese, Chinese, Haole or whatever than they are Hawaiian. How many would sacrifice material things for a simpler "Hawaiian" lifestlye really more connected to the aina, not just lipservice between Vegas trips and Costco runs? Not many.

              But because not many Hawaiians are very Hawaiian either, it's easy for everyone else to create "Hawaiian Lite". All the good things about being a "Hawaiian" in Hawaii but without all the hassle and sacrifice.

              I call your essay another in a long line of intellectual genocide.

              You are Japanese.
              Your wife is part-Hawaiian and part something else.
              Your kids are part-Hawaiian and part something else.

              Despite what many of the plantation decendants wish, being Hawaiian is not a state of mind, it doesn't come wtih time. Hawaiian defines the decendants of the original inhabitants of these islands who shared common physical features, common language, common values and common culture. Either you are or you are not.


              Simple.

              Aloha
              Last edited by kamuelakea; October 24, 2005, 03:02 PM.

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              • #8
                Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

                The definition of Hawaiian is really simple. There are barely 1000 of them.
                The definition of part-Hawaiian is really simple. Got about 300,000 of them.
                The definition of an immigrant who choses to live in Hawaii is also simple. Got about 800,000 of them. One is named Ben Cayetano.

                Aloha
                So from the above can I conclude that a Hawaiian or part Hawaiian who chooses to live somewhere other than Hawaii is an immigrant?

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                • #9
                  Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

                  Originally posted by D'Alani
                  So from the above can I conclude that a Hawaiian or part Hawaiian who chooses to live somewhere other than Hawaii is an immigrant?
                  I forget who said it but someone famous, Reagan?, pointed out how if an American moved to France he could never be French but anyone in the world can move to America and be an Amercan.

                  So a Hawaiian who considers himself American can go the other 49 states and be an Amercian. Not an immigrant. If a Hawaiian lived anywhere else in the world, the rest of the world would surely consider them an immigrant. Try ask them.

                  But most important, a Hawaiian who chose to reside in South Dakota could never honestly call himself a Native American Indian no matter how much he pretended to be one.

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                  • #10
                    Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

                    Originally posted by kamuelakea
                    But most important, a Hawaiian who chose to reside in South Dakota could never honestly call himself a Native American Indian no matter how much he pretended to be one.
                    Aloha kamuelakea,

                    If the kanaka maoli who choses to reside in South Dakota is an enrolled member of the Cheyenne, Arapaho, Sioux or another tribe, they could theoretically be both "Hawaiian" and "Native American Indian."

                    Consider for a moment the descendants of Anthony D. Allen, a sailor of African ancestry who settled in Hawai'i during the early 19th century. Allen had children by a kanaka maoli woman and their modern-day descendants are considered kanaka maoli in Hawai'i. However, as soon as Allen's descendants visit the continental United States, they are considered "black" or "African American" because of the so-called "one drop" rule.

                    Thus, depending on one's particular ethnic ancestry and genealogy, they can be considered kanaka maoli in Hawai'i and something else outside of Hawai'i.

                    Cheers,

                    Jonah K
                    Ā Ē Ī Ō Ū ā ē ī ō ū -- Just a little something to "cut and paste."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

                      Not that I'm an anthropologist, or sociologist, or ethnicologist (I made this one up,) but I can say one thing. If your ancestors are not Hawaiian, you are not Hawaiian. Just like if your ancestors are Irish, you are Irish. So on and so forth. While living somewhere and "practicing" the local customs/culture allows you to fit in, it doesn't make you indigenous/native/whatever you'd like to call it. I struggle to comprehend people's desire to "be" something they're not - what good does it do to lie to yourself? Besides, most cultures welcome people - have you ever seen an Irishman upset that a non-Irishman is enjoying a pint of Guiness on St. Patty's Day? Just my two cents. . . . . . and I'm a silly haole!
                      Stephen

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                      • #12
                        Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

                        Originally posted by Stephen
                        I struggle to comprehend people's desire to "be" something they're not - what good does it do to lie to yourself? Just my two cents. . . . . . and I'm a silly haole!
                        Stephen

                        I think you're right. Trying constantly to be something you're not only leads to insecurity, frustration and anger. Then you gotta drink too much beer or smoke da ice.

                        That goes for people trying to act "Hawaiian" and part-Hawaiians acting like their more Hawaiian and Malihini act Kamaaina, whatever.

                        Unfortunately, I think the need and desire to be something different is the core to modern Hawaii culture.

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                        • #13
                          Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

                          Funny this should happen right now, but an old teacher/friend contacted me yesterday about his first trip to Hawaii a couple weeks ago on a cruise.

                          He asked me about the apparent strong religeous protection of the Pohaku.

                          He had told some tour guide that he wanted to take a peice of lava rock from the Big Island during a tour of the volcano. The tour guide became insensed and gave him the long explanation about how he shouldn't do that and how there is the museum of returned pohaku from tourists struck with bad luck etc etc.

                          The guy apparently even became emotional and started to cry according to my friend.

                          Funny part of the story? He asked the tour guide about his background. Turns out his parents were filipino, he was born in Hawaii, then he returned to the Philippines as a child and then back to Hawaii as an adult.

                          Sorry, I know some of you will read this and say, "Wow, right on, the filipino should be commended for educating the tourist about Hawaiian custom." And I agree. But to start to cry. I dunno. My take is that this is how the filipino "feels more Hawaiian".

                          I told my friend, your tour guide was right, don't take the rock but he was crying because he isn't Hawaiian, not because of the rock.

                          By the way, later on the same trip, he was at some store that sold orchids grown in lava rock. So he asked the apparently Asian store owner how they could sell these lava rocks given the Hawaiian cultural views toward taking rocks. What was the answer? Silence.

                          It's called Hawaiian-Lite, ........... Hawaiian when you wanna be.

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                          • #14
                            Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

                            Originally posted by Jonah K
                            If the kanaka maoli who choses to reside in South Dakota is an enrolled member of the Cheyenne, Arapaho, Sioux or another tribe, they could theoretically be both "Hawaiian" and "Native American Indian."
                            I would disagree. The best that one could achieve IMO would be status similar to "hanai" if I understand the concept. Without NA blood you can never be NA. That's not to say you cannot achieve standing as a tribal member.

                            You know this is a great discussion and as a consequence of this and other discussions on the subject I shall forevermore refrain from referring to myself as a "native Californian". Thanks.
                            “First we fought the preliminary round for the k***s and now we’re gonna fight the main event for the n*****s."
                            http://hollywoodbitchslap.com/review...=416&printer=1

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                            • #15
                              Re: What is "Hawaiian" to you?

                              Originally posted by sinjin
                              I would disagree. The best that one could achieve IMO would be status similar to "hanai" if I understand the concept. Without NA blood you can never be NA. That's not to say you cannot achieve standing as a tribal member.

                              You know this is a great discussion and as a consequence of this and other discussions on the subject I shall forevermore refrain from referring to myself as a "native Californian". Thanks.
                              Aloha sinjin,

                              To be an "enrolled member" of the Cheyenne, Arapaho, Sioux, and several other tribes usually requires some degree of "American Indian" ancestry. If a kanaka maoli has children with a member of an "American Indian" tribe, their offspring will be both kanaka maoli and "American Indian."

                              Cheers,

                              Jonah K
                              Ā Ē Ī Ō Ū ā ē ī ō ū -- Just a little something to "cut and paste."

                              Comment

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