Japanese and the protocal of bowing

[Peshkwe]

Got a question for anyone...

What's the proper way to do right by a sorta tradish Japanese guy?

One of my daughter's doctors was a mid 30ish Japanese and he bowed with his comings and goings...I'd usually get two or three full out bows and when my husband was there he'd get one head nodish type bow. Eventually he relaxed and didn't do the bowing quite so often, after seeing me for ten days straight (and with me trying to thwart the evil dust bunnies too).

I want to give him his props 'cause he's a nice guy and actually hung his head and apologised when my kid wouldn't sieze while gridded...I didn't know what to do 'cause he kept apologising so I just petted on him, it wasn't his fault, tho' I think he felt like it was and he kept saying that if she was his sister...etc...I know she frustrated the crud out of him with being all contrary.

This is who he is:

http://peds.med.wayne.edu/personal.a...R&DIV_ID3=NEUR

http://pet.wayne.edu/eishi.htm
(a boatload of stuffage)

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~eishi/ (dunno about this page, the translator bites)


Anyways...ya need a neruological technoslut...he's your guy!

[Peshkwe]

Re: Japanese and the protocal of bowing

By the way if you hadn't noticed, I'm cluless about this. The closest I ever got to giving props Japanese way was when I lit some insense and got some tea started for a friend of my folks who was coming over....and she started crying.

I thought I insulted her.

[Miulang]

Re: Japanese and the protocal of bowing

Hey Peshkwe:

Is there an Asian market somewhere in your neighborhood? Some nice, fragrant Japanese green popcorn tea and maybe a little teapot would be a very thoughtful gift. Also, if there is an Asian market, in a section somewhere in there should be some boxed Japanese sweets (look kinda like rectangular jelly candy dusted with corn starch or powdered sugar, or senbei (Japanese rice crackers). Any of those types of confections would make someone from Nihongo feel a little less homesick, I think. Here's a link to a Hawaii-based place that sells arare, if you can't find any local sources of Japanese goodies.

Miulang

[Peshkwe]

Re: Japanese and the protocal of bowing

I've got a couple of boards setting up for silverpoint drawings for both him and the surgon. The both kept track of the progress of a mermaid I was drawing for Sienna while she was stuck in the bed....but adding in the sweets would be cool.

[MadAzza]

Re: Japanese and the protocal of bowing

...a sorta tradish Japanese guy... (and with me trying to thwart the evil dust bunnies too).
... my kid wouldn't sieze while gridded...I just petted on him ... Anyways...ya need a neruological technoslut...he's your guy!

Did you get hit on the head, or am I missing the joke that everyone else is getting??

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Japanese and the protocal of bowing

By the way if you hadn't noticed, I'm cluless about this. The closest I ever got to giving props Japanese way was when I lit some insense and got some tea started for a friend of my folks who was coming over....and she started crying.

I thought I insulted her.

It's possible. Depending on the type of incense you lit (hopefully not those really pencil thin/black ones), you could have presented her a tea ceremony in the wake of a family member passing on. Not a good welcome.

[Peshkwe]

Re: Japanese and the protocal of bowing

Did you get hit on the head, or am I missing the joke that everyone else is getting??

LOL!

Nah, the evil dust bunnies are the hallucinatory shadow that keep into the perifial vision during sleep deprevation. I had to stay awake to press a button while my kid had electronic grids hooked to wires stuck in her skull and right on her brain (she's epileptic). The button caused an alert to be established on the monitor readout if she had a seizure. With no one to take turns with (my hub was watching the other kid) I stayed awake for about five to seven days straight dozing when they would come during the day and the little one chilled long enough to be quiet. That was only for about a half hours worth of teasing me though. Days 8 & 9 were better 'cause they had extra student staff that took over watching at night so I got some real sleep.

She never did seize though, which is why she had the grids in for 10 days. There was a strong focal point active but no matter how many KHz Dr Asano cranked a point to she'd just sit there...he was freaking a bit looking between her, the monitor, checking the pulse levels and going "Nothing???" *tweek a dial* "Nothing????...that was strong activity....NOTHING????" It was kinda funny.

They took out the grids and the one focal spot in the left occipital area without screwing with her vision. Hopefully she'll be seizure free or at least be able to get the meds cut way back.

[Peshkwe]

Re: Japanese and the protocal of bowing

It's possible. Depending on the type of incense you lit (hopefully not those really pencil thin/black ones), you could have presented her a tea ceremony in the wake of a family member passing on. Not a good welcome.

She said she was really happy not sad after I apologised (I was 16 at the time and really thought I fubared her feelings), she and her hub ended up becoming good family friends with my folks.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Japanese and the protocal of bowing

Japanese are always apologizing ("I'm sorry I said that" ...yeah we're a sorry bunch ) Bowing is a form of showing respect to one another. It is an intentional act of looking down instead of making eye contact.

Ironically Asian cultures regard direct eye contact as a form of disrespect (totally opposite of western attitudes) and in some instances a challenge to their integrity.

Also to blow off an apology (such as "nah don't worry about it") in a typically traditional Japanese culture leaves that sorry Asian guy with no honorable way to redeem himself. In the old days that ended up with a knife to his own gut as a way to inflict self punishment for not being able to appease the person he dishonored.

Nowdays however this action is almost two-faced. Modern day Japanese and even some Nisei here in Hawaii will apologize for the sake of hearing a western person discount their wrongful act. And when the western person accepts that apology instead of discounting it, that Japanese person will humbly accept it outwardly but inside he's fuming because he just apologized symbolically and really didn't mean it. Yeah not a good thing.

But if you want to give a Japanese national metro man something and he loves to drink and smoke (lot's of them do that), get him a bottle of some really good whiskey and some Cuban cigars.

By giving him something of his own culture is a bit of an embarrassment. Imagine being Hawaiian and having a well-meaning haole give him a bag of poi? Yeah...okay...hey honey look what da haole across da street gave us...ho like we miss da stuff.

Give him something he loves...and that's imported spirits and tobacco (if he's into smoking and drinking). Other than that, stick to what you know best to give based on your cultural upbringing and present it to him in your most culturally respectful way and I don't mean McDonald's gift certificates mailed along with your doctor visit bill.

If you're Italian give what Italians give as respectful of their culture. If you're a biker chick, give him a Harley leather jacket. In other words give him something he knows that is important to you, not important to him. This way he knows that whatever you give him had a lot of thought in it.

Once I got a piece of artwork from my then Egyptian girlfriend of my name written in her ancestor's language on papyrus and a rug made from a village outside of Cairo. I cherish that much more than that polo shirt I got from another friend. That artwork and rug represented my girlfriend's culture and I know it meant a lot to her that I accept that piece of culture from her.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Japanese and the protocal of bowing

Cultural details can be very important to Nihonjin (and Nikkeijin, to varying degrees), and I've often found that making an effort to do right by another person's culture can go a very long way - even to the point of countering an unintentional offense.

Bowing is one of those aspects of showing respect; how you exchange and study business cards is another; how you serve tea and food is yet another --- there are so many aspects of Japanese culture that are related to giving and accepting respect, it's hard to get it all straight, if you were not raised in the culture. Giving a gift (it need not be elaborate, as long as the intent is true) can help to soothe things as well. Don't make a show of it, or make a big deal of your apology, as that can cause further embarrassment.

For a culture that reveres simplicity in so many things, it's amazing how complex the "rules" of simplicity can get to be. But that's part of the beauty of centuries of tradition.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Japanese and the protocal of bowing

For a culture that reveres simplicity in so many things, it's amazing how complex the "rules" of simplicity can get to be. But that's part of the beauty of centuries of tradition.

Yep Japanese are very complex individuals and as a culture. There are ways of counting things that are alive, flat, whatever. Ceremonies are an important part of Japanese living it's almost intimidating to try to assimilate into it's culture and do it respectfully. Maybe that's why the youth of Japan has rebelled. Traditional Japanese culture remains alive and well here in Hawaii though (sometimes not a good thing because of the complexities and misunderstandings that arise when cultures clash).

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Japanese and the protocal of bowing

When the Alpha Female and I went to Japan last year, people there could tell (from her accent and manner of speech) that she isn't a native of Japan, despite her appearance and fluency. My language skills are, of course, decades behind hers, but I could pick out the context of a conversation from the occasional words I recognized. The most common conversation usually included a very courteous way of asking the equivalent of "you're not from around here, are ya?" That was invariably followed by her informing the questioner that we were from Seattle, which ALWAYS triggered a response of "Ah! Ichiro!" with smiles all around.

For those who need additional clarification, the career of Seattle Mariners player, and former baseball superstar in Japan, Ichiro Suzuki, is still followed very closely in Japan. We made sure to bring a lot of Ichiro paraphenalia along with us, to give away to people who were helpful to us. The most appreciative group was probably the college students who approached me at a temple in Tokyo, and asked if they could practice their English with me, by asking me questions and recording how a native English speaker responds. I think I stunned them when they asked if I knew any famous Japanese, and I replied by talking about current J-Pop musicians.

[Peshkwe]

Re: Japanese and the protocal of bowing

Japanese are always apologizing ("I'm sorry I said that" ...yeah we're a sorry bunch ) Bowing is a form of showing respect to one another. It is an intentional act of looking down instead of making eye contact.

Ironically Asian cultures regard direct eye contact as a form of disrespect (totally opposite of western attitudes) and in some instances a challenge to their integrity.

I do that too till I get to know someone, it's a privacy thing in a bunch of Ndn cultures too. I think it amused his tech watching us talk.

Also to blow off an apology (such as "nah don't worry about it") in a typically traditional Japanese culture leaves that sorry Asian guy with no honorable way to redeem himself. In the old days that ended up with a knife to his own gut as a way to inflict self punishment for not being able to appease the person he dishonored.

Nowdays however this action is almost two-faced. Modern day Japanese and even some Nisei here in Hawaii will apologize for the sake of hearing a western person discount their wrongful act. And when the western person accepts that apology instead of discounting it, that Japanese person will humbly accept it outwardly but inside he's fuming because he just apologized symbolically and really didn't mean it. Yeah not a good thing.

I think he was legit in the apology, he'd already pretty much relaxed and dropped alot of the 'professional' attitude with me, but he was frustrated by not being able to make sure the focal point he was seeing was the source of all the activity or not, on one side and the potential for a brain infection the longer the grids were in on the other side, coupled with having her give up a little visual seizure (in the form of seeing a smily face) during one of the mapping sessions then not being able to reproduce it...he kept saying how strong she was but that if she was his little sister he'd not want to go any longer but go for the spot they do have identified.

I told him it wasn't his fault she wouldn't give it up, she was contrary girl, and was probably fighting it to an extent, mixed with the rarity of the grids actually supressing the siezures (discussed when she hit day 5 with nothing happening) as a possibility, it was great he got what he did. I asked if that one loci's activity was consistant and he pulled out her graph printouts, which were about an inch thick saying he'd never had a stack that thick from anyone before. He visibly relaxed when we got to discussing the readouts without him having to break it down too simply and he got to slip back into his natural state of being...geeky technoslut.

But if you want to give a Japanese national metro man something and he loves to drink and smoke (lot's of them do that), get him a bottle of some really good whiskey and some Cuban cigars.

He didn't smell like a regular smoker or drinker.

By giving him something of his own culture is a bit of an embarrassment. Imagine being Hawaiian and having a well-meaning haole give him a bag of poi? Yeah...okay...hey honey look what da haole across da street gave us...ho like we miss da stuff.

Give him something he loves...and that's imported spirits and tobacco (if he's into smoking and drinking). Other than that, stick to what you know best to give based on your cultural upbringing and present it to him in your most culturally respectful way and I don't mean McDonald's gift certificates mailed along with your doctor visit bill.

If you're Italian give what Italians give as respectful of their culture. If you're a biker chick, give him a Harley leather jacket. In other words give him something he knows that is important to you, not important to him. This way he knows that whatever you give him had a lot of thought in it.

Once I got a piece of artwork from my then Egyptian girlfriend of my name written in her ancestor's language on papyrus and a rug made from a village outside of Cairo. I cherish that much more than that polo shirt I got from another friend. That artwork and rug represented my girlfriend's culture and I know it meant a lot to her that I accept that piece of culture from her.

Kinda figured that...

Tho giving him something he's way into would be hard to figure out, a neuro surgon who's gone to the dark side of the technoslut probably has all the cool toys already.

And yup..he's a geek and really showed it after seeing a his-n-hers tatoo set I drew out for his tech Carol, then asking me whether anesthetic was used first. When I said no that only doctors got to play with anesthetic and all tatoos were done with no numbing...same way with body peircing. He gave me a quizzical look on the body piercing and I said "like tongues and nipples..." stopping when his eyes got wide and he did an all over body shiver self hugging move with a "doesn't that HURT?" exclamation.

Poor guy woulda hit the floor if I had to explain what a 'Prince Albert' was.