Martin Luther King vs. Queen Liliuokalani

[damontucker]

I just found this interesting compilation of articles/summaries/editorials..etc on this web site Copyrighted by Kenneth Conklin, Ph,D.

Had some interesting points.

I myself think that we here in Hawaii should be proud of MLK and anybody else that would stand up against minorities.

http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/hawaiia...gqueenlil.html

"SUMMARY: Today's Hawaiian sovereignty activists try to link their cause to the black civil rights movement."

[anapuni808]

Re: Martin Luther King vs. Queen Lilioukalani

There is no "vs." between the Queen & Dr. King. In fact, if you go to the MLK Day march tomorrow, you will probably see many Hawaiian flags flying & many Sovereignty folks participating. Only Conklin sees any conflict. He is not a nice person (and yes, I do know him).

Fran

[Miulang]

Re: Martin Luther King vs. Queen Lilioukalani

Both Martin Luther King and na ali'i Liliuokalani were visionaries who advocated peaceful resistance against their oppressors.

One of the main reasons the kanaka maoli now are joining in the holiday observations of Dr. King's birth is because they also are observing (but definitely NOT celebrating) the overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy on January 17, 1893. It makes perfect sense that the followers of both of these strong leaders would unite.

Dr. King said it best in his "I Have Been to the Mountain" speech:

"...And another reason that I'm happy to live in this period is that we have been forced to a point where we're going to have to grapple with the problems that men have been trying to grapple with through history, but the demand didn't force them to do it. Survival demands that we grapple with them. Men, for years now, have been talking about war and peace. But now, no longer can they just talk about it. It is no longer a choice between violence and nonviolence in this world; it's nonviolence or nonexistence.

That is where we are today. And also in the human rights revolution, if something isn't done, and in a hurry, to bring the colored peoples of the world out of their long years of poverty, their long years of hurt and neglect, the whole world is doomed. Now, I'm just happy that God has allowed me to live in this period, to see what is unfolding...

"...And that's all this whole thing is about. We aren't engaged in any negative protest and in any negative arguments with anybody. We are saying that we are determined to be men. We are determined to be people. We are saying that we are God's children. And that we don't have to live like we are forced to live.

Now, what does all of this mean in this great period of history? It means that we've got to stay together. We've got to stay together and maintain unity. You know, whenever Pharaoh wanted to prolong the period of slavery in Egypt, he had a favorite, favorite formula for doing it. What was that? He kept the slaves fighting among themselves. But whenever the slaves get together, something happens in Pharaoh's court, and he cannot hold the slaves in slavery. When the slaves get together, that's the beginning of getting out of slavery. Now let us maintain unity...."

Happy Birthday, MLK. Your legacy continues. Onipa'a!

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Martin Luther King vs. Queen Lilioukalani

One interesting point to ponder about the word "equality": If there is true inequality in our society, and equality is being advocated because one group of people has fewer rights than another group of people, to get the people with fewer rights to parity, wouldn't it conversely mean that the group that had more rights would have to give up some of their rights to get to that equilibrium? Because if, as the minority group was pulling itself up to "parity" and the prevailing group worked to reach a higher level rather than giving up some of what they had, then the minority group would always still have less, and society would still be unbalanced.

Do "liberals" or "conservatives" really want to give up some of their "equalness" when they debate the inequity of allowing the kanaka maoli or any indigenous group of people to regain what they lost?

Miulang

[Peshkwe]

Re: Martin Luther King vs. Queen Lilioukalani

There is no "vs." between the Queen & Dr. King. In fact, if you go to the MLK Day march tomorrow, you will probably see many Hawaiian flags flying & many Sovereignty folks participating. Only Conklin sees any conflict. He is not a nice person (and yes, I do know him).

Fran

I read his stuff and then the way he posts and I always get to wondering...

Why any momma would want to ween their child on dill pickles.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Martin Luther King vs. Queen Lilioukalani

One interesting point to ponder about the word "equality": If there is true inequality in our society, and equality is being advocated because one group of people has fewer rights than another group of people, to get the people with fewer rights to parity, wouldn't it conversely mean that the group that had more rights would have to give up some of their rights to get to that equilibrium? Because if, as the minority group was pulling itself up to "parity" and the prevailing group worked to reach a higher level rather than giving up some of what they had, then the minority group would always still have less, and society would still be unbalanced.

Do "liberals" or "conservatives" really want to give up some of their "equalness" when they debate the inequity of allowing the kanaka maoli or any indigenous group of people to regain what they lost?

Miulang

Like I tell my kids, "Life's cruel and nobody said it was going to be fair". In an ideal world where life is equal, there is no challenge, no zest for life, no reason to build on a dream.

In an world where life is equal, there is no better, no stronger, no happier, no sadder person living in that society.

In an world where life is equal, there is no tolerance for bias, hence no thought for expression, no debate, and hence...no freedom of speech.

In a world where life is equal, there is no tolerance for differing views so there are no religions, no athiests, no philosophers...hence no thinkers.

In a world where life is equal, there are no levels of authority, no mentors, no intellectuals...hence total anarchy and we go back to square one.

Eventually amongst the equalness of that society, someone will rise above and say, "I hate White" and will dress in red.

Eventually that rebel will stand for a cause and will lead a group of believers.

Eventually those people will develop a counter culture and live life the way they please.

Eventually life will have choices.

Eventually is now. We are not equal, we will never be and equality will never happen...there will always be the haves and the have nots. The only ones that can make change in their lives are the ones that choose not to live a life of dependancy and liberate themselves of the tormentors of their lives.

Yes the black population lived a life of suppression, however some managed not to. Same goes for the Hawaiians. Generations of Hawaiian families have been raised again and again on welfare checks.

In Waianae I knew of a family whose children and grandchildren new nothing of the concept of work but only knew that the government will pay for their living. I ask the keiki, "you gotta stay in school so you can get one good job". What for when the government going pay for your meals and subsidize your rental. How can you establish any level of independence from your tormentors when you're taking their bribe every month?

[Miulang]

Re: Martin Luther King vs. Queen Lilioukalani

In Waianae I knew of a family whose children and grandchildren new nothing of the concept of work but only knew that the government will pay for their living. I ask the keiki, "you gotta stay in school so you can get one good job". What for when the government going pay for your meals and subsidize your rental. How can you establish any level of independence from your tormentors when you're taking their bribe every month?

When there are generations of families on welfare, it's hard to think that you can break through the cycle. It's like that quote I posted earlier from Martin Luther King's "I Have Been to the Mountain" speech says: The way the government keeps welfare families under control is to subsidize their living.

In Maslow's hierarchy of needs theory, man's "basic" economic needs are for food and housing. Only when those needs are met will people strive to move further up the pyramid to self-actualization. People on welfare are given just enough to survive, but not enough to feel that they can achieve more for themselves. That's why the HeadStart program for young kids was so important because it helped economically-challenged families give their kids the opportunity to learn. With the current White House administration's lack of interest in supporting education (it imposed the NCLB act but didn't give the states any help in funding the program and it has severely cut back on educational funding in favor of defense spending) our national educational future is dismal.

A strong educational system is the best indicator of the vitality of a society. The rare person who today is able to break free of the cycle of poverty is the one who had grownups--mentors--who took the time to nurture the child's development in positive ways, both in and out of school. When you have no positive reinforcement, you give up hope. And when you give up hope, you end up at the bottom of the heap.

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Martin Luther King vs. Queen Lilioukalani

On the front page of this month's Northwest Hawai'i Times is a quote from na ali'i Liliuokalani in 1917 as related to author Helena G. Allen by Liliu's hanai daughter, Lydia K. Aholo, which shows the visionary nature of the last monarch of Hawai'i (in the book "The Betrayal of Liliuokalani", Mutual Publishing 1982):

"...I could not hold back the time for the political change, but there is still time to save our heritage. You must remember never to cease to act because you fear you may fail. The way to lose any earthly kingdom is to be inflexible, intolerant, and prejudicial. Another way is to be too flexible, tolerant of too many wrongs and without judgement at all. It is a razor's edge. It is the width of a blade of pili grass. To gain the kingdom of heaven is to bear what is not said, to see what cannot be seen, and to know the unknowable--that is Aloha."

'Onipa'a!

Miulang

[Miulang]

Re: Martin Luther King vs. Queen Lilioukalani

Will we ever learn our lessons from the past? Rev. Martin Luther King gave this speech ("Beyond Vietnam: A Time to Break Silence") in April, 1967, exactly a year before he was assassinated. For Dr. King, equality and peace were both noble causes. Go to this link to see the text of the speech and to actually hear him delivering the speech. History is repeating itself: just replace the country we were "at war" with in 1967 with today's Iraq...(Warning: It's a very long speech...). The only difference between then and now is we don't have a Dr. Martin Luther King at the pulpit.

"...By 1967, King had become the country's most prominent opponent of the Vietnam War, and a staunch critic of overall U.S. foreign policy, which he deemed militaristic. In his "Beyond Vietnam" speech delivered at New York's Riverside Church on April 4, 1967 -- a year to the day before he was murdered -- King called the United States "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today."

Time magazine called the speech "demagogic slander that sounded like a script for Radio Hanoi," and the Washington Post declared that King had "diminished his usefulness to his cause, his country, his people."

Miulang