Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

[adrian]

Hawaii gun owners do not have the right to carry their weapons on their body. Lawmakers have consistently refused to grant what's called "permission to carry."

But there's a new twist to the request at this year's legislature.

A bill to allow guns to be carried in the open has won a hearing and it is scheduled to get a vote on Friday.

Full Article

[kimo55]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

"Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun"
Then I am a friend of Bill.

[MadAzza]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

Hey, the poll says 100% in favor!

Thanks to my vote ... which so far is the only vote!

[mel]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

All supporters of this bill and Second Amendment rights should call Senator Colleen Hanabusa and ask her to recommend that her committee (JHW) vote to pass this bill tomorrow. Phone 586-7793. Email: senhanabusa@capitol.hawaii.gov

Contact other members of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

A bill for concealed carry was heard in the Intergovernmental Affairs committee last week but deferred indefinitely.

[Jewlipino]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

I am STRONGLY opposed to this bill. Non-lethal deterrants are easily and cheaply available.

A) This bill will just put guns into the hands of untrained and inexperienced people.

B) What happens if your assailant takes your gun away? Then you're really screwed

C) People are twitchy, what if a bystander gets hurt/killed?

Look I've seen big 300lb bastards incapacitated from military mace, pepper spray is damned effective, and so are stun guns and tasers. Frankly the only reason for carrying a hand-gun is if you want to be able to KILL someone. That makes you a MURDERER (because if you're carrying it it's frikkin premeditated that you want to kill someone!). Since non-lethal weaponry exists and is available I believe that the justification for carrying a lethal firearm during peacetime in a 1st world country is nonexistent. Anyone who honestly wants this either hasn't fully considered the consequences of their actions, or lacks the basic self-control and respect for human lives that makes civil society possible, why should they of all people be allowed to carry a firearm on their person. Sounds downright un-Christian to me..... then again I'm not a goy

Jewlipino

[kimo55]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

>A) This bill will just put guns into the hands of untrained and inexperienced people.

this exists already. Not only untrained but those with intent to harm you and your family.

>B) What happens if your assailant takes your gun away? Then you're really screwed

gun control means not letting that happen. YOU are the untrained schmuk if ya let that happen.


>C) People are twitchy, what if a bystander gets hurt/killed?

by a twitch!?

>Look I've seen big 300lb bastards incapacitated from military mace, pepper spray is damned effective,


spice squirters are not at all a deterrent to the mind and body that is taken over by ice or angel dust...

>Frankly the only reason for carrying a hand-gun is if you want to be able to KILL someone. That makes you a MURDERER (because if you're carrying it it's frikkin premeditated that you want to kill someone!).

well, that may be what goes on in your mind. but don't assume you are in any position to know what goes on within the mind of others.
It seems some are unfamiliar with the concept of deterrent measures.

>...or lacks the basic self-control and respect for human lives that makes civil society possible, why should they of all people be allowed to carry a firearm on their person.

This is not a civil society when we outlaw guns and then, as they say, only outlaws have the guns. a criminal will not prey on a well armed neighborhood.

>then again I'm not a goy

yer not a goy. are you a birl?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

a criminal will not prey on a well armed neighborhood.

Well...not a SECOND time, I would think...

[Da Rolling Eye]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

I am STRONGLY opposed to this bill.

Bring it on.

A) This bill will just put guns into the hands of untrained and inexperienced people.

Who's crap have you been reading or listening to?

Did you do any research about obtaining permits to carry? In Hawai'i, to even obtain a permit to purchase a handgun, the buyer must have taken and passed a recognized firearm safety class or a Hunter Safety Education class sponsored by the state. If an open carry bill or concealed carry bill passes, they will surely include a stipulation that the applicant must also pass a police department proficiency test. Similar tests are required in the states that do allow permits to carry.

Also, to obtain a permit to purchase, the buyer must not have, at the present or in the past, had any psychological illnesses and treatment or have been a convicted felon or is or has been a drug user or has any restraining orders against them. HPD does perform a background check on all applicants no matter how many years the applicant has owned firearms.

People applying for and obtaining a permit to carry are hardly untrained. Inexperienced in shooting another human being? Yeah. Like most police officers and soldiers are. Noone wants to have to draw down on someone.

B) What happens if your assailant takes your gun away? Then you're really screwed

If it got physical, you were screwed whether you had it or not. Once it got physical, the perp's intent is to do physical harm or kill you. The idea with training is to stop the perp before he/she can get close enough to get physical, either by running away, 1st choice, or shooting them, always the last choice.

C) People are twitchy, what if a bystander gets hurt/killed?

That's a pretty broad paint brush you wield. Maybe YOU might be twitchy, having such a phobia about trained law abiding citizens carrying guns. Lethal force is used ONLY as a last resort. If anyone starts shooting first, it's usually going to be a perp.

>Look I've seen big 300lb bastards incapacitated from military mace, pepper spray is damned effective,

It's also been found to be ineffective as per Kimo. The only 300 lb. "bastards" I've seen get incapacitated by pepper spray were willing guinea pigs. Not doped up druggies.

>Frankly the only reason for carrying a hand-gun is if you want to be able to KILL someone. That makes you a MURDERER (because if you're carrying it it's frikkin premeditated that you want to kill someone!).

Have you seen the Justice Department and FBI statistics on how many rapes, murders and burglaries were avoided because the intended victim was armed? You seem to think this is just a testosterone enhancing topic and disregard the fact that tens of thousands of women carry concealed handguns and many have saved there own butts from rape or murder because of it. Remember, it's the Justice Department or the FBI. Stats from organizations endorsed by the likes of Ted Kennedy, Chucky Schumer, Her Highness Clinton and others of their ilk have already been proven to be full of half truths and out right lies.

Btw, stats from the Justice Dept. or FBI have already "proven" that violent crime in conceal carry states have either stayed the same or gone down.

The only place where violent crime is consistently highest and getting worse is Washington DC, where they have a city wide ban on all handguns. Funny thing, people are still being shot by handguns. Howcum?

Oh, because we have no carry permits and rape, violent and domestic crime is not exactly going away anytime soon, guess who's carrying illegally by choice? You betcha. Numbers are growing and I don't blame them one bit. Kinda make you feel more....twitchy?

Since non-lethal weaponry exists and is available I believe that the justification for carrying a lethal firearm during peacetime in a 1st world country is nonexistent.

The only non-lethal "weapons" available to civilians are the pepper sprays and some stun guns. Btw, did you know that you have to fill out a questionaire or application to obtain such devices. The really good stuff is not and never will be available for private citizens to obtain. As for being a 1st world country, have you seen the violent crime stats from Australia and England? Both have nationwide gun bans and both are experiencing an increase in violent crimes and crimes involving firearms. Now where are those guns coming from, I wonder? They're supposed to be banned. Btw, Japan is not immune and are having similar problems.

Anyone who honestly wants this either hasn't fully considered the consequences of their actions,

Oh, believe me. I fully understand the consequences of my actions. I would have saved the life of my family and myself and possibly other innocent law abiding citizens. The one that "lacks the basic self-control and respect for human lives that makes civil society possible" will be the perp laying in his own blood with a bullet hole in center mass and other lowlife predators like him. Why are you picking on law abiding citizens who choose to own and carry a firearm for their defense? Sounds like ACLU BS. Defend the perp. Screw the vic.

why should they of all people be allowed to carry a firearm on their person

Why not? It seems obvious you'd rather the bad guys be able to carry a firearm? Don't dispute it. Read you're own words. No matter what kind of anti gun laws keep getting passed, no matter how much spewing the libs keep doing because "guns are dangerous", the bad guys will always have guns. That's a promise. That's a fact, because no matter how many anti gun laws the libs pass, they only affect the law abiding citizen. Why? Because to be law abiding, there will be a paper trail for every gun purchased. You already know that. If you really don't, then your points are baseless or based on the aforementioned half truths and lies, which is still baseless.

Sounds downright un-Christian to me

Actually, it's about as Christian as apple pie and baseball are American. Goes all the way back to the Pilgrims.

[Da Rolling Eye]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

Well...not a SECOND time, I would think...

Don't have it with me, but there are a couple of small towns that require all households to have at least one firearm. It's the laaaaw. Needless to say, they don't have much by way of crime in their towns by getting the word out that any would be criminals would be trying their luck in an armed town and will most likely not be leaving if caught.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

Don't have it with me, but there are a couple of small towns that require all households to have at least one firearm. It's the laaaaw.

That's intriguing - could you track down a reference on that for us? I would think that would bring about some form of legal challenges, but that doesn't mean they would succeed.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

Actually, it's about as Christian as apple pie and baseball are American. Goes all the way back to the Pilgrims.

Not sure I am getting the analogy here. Just because Pilgrim homes had firearms - which I would think a necessity for food-gathering and protection in a wilderness environment - how does that make gun ownership a Christian tenet?

[Jewlipino]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. I'm just not sold on the idea in general. I'm not even convinced that cops should carry guns, they might want to use them..... All this is just another lovely example of attacking the effect rather than the cause. Our criminal justice system and the conditions of poverty, homelessness and neglect that we encourage our politicans to foster by not holding them accountable is a primary cause and source of violent crime of the sorts cited by advocates (yourself included) of this bill. Reacting to the effects of the bad policies doesn't eliminate the cause and the source of the problem, it just lands perps in the hospital where I and every other taxpayer winds up paying for their healthcare because YOU shot them, and subsequently in our prisons where, AGAIN, I and every other taxpayer winds up paying for them, possibly ad infinitum. And people wonder why the jails are crowded! If you and everyone else who supports this bill really want to do something meaningful I encourage you to support measures that will eliminate the CAUSE and not the effect. BTW the un-Christian comment was a bit of sarcasm on my part, Christians are famous worldwide for killing people for little or no reason, why should this be any different. Nevermind what Christ said about the subject... (if he ever even existed, but that is a topic for another forum)

Jewlipino

[kimo55]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

Well...not a SECOND time, I would think...

not even a first time, if word got out. and word would get out it is a possibility he would find resistance intstead of the "law on his side; victims full of compliance" situation we got now.

[Miulang]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

And on a more global level, I think all nations should have the nuclear weapon capability. Why limit it to the countries who have the most to lose, like the United States and the USSR? If every country could drop the big one on any other country, which country would want to play chicken first and be wiped off the face of the earth? So if every adult in Hawai'i was allowed to pack a gun legally, how much you wanna bet the number of crimes involving guns would go down dramatically? ("Is he or isn't he packing a gun that could kill me?")

Miulang

[Da Rolling Eye]

Re: Bill could allow Hawaii residents to carry a gun

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.

Nothing wrong with that.

I'm not even convinced that cops should carry guns, they might want to use them

See how far that argument gets you with the police unions.

Reacting to the effects of the bad policies doesn't eliminate the cause and the source of the problem

No it doesn't, but if circumstances dictates, it'll hopefully keep me and the family alive until said problems have been eliminated.

it just lands perps in the hospital where I and every other taxpayer winds up paying for their healthcare because YOU shot them, and subsequently in our prisons where, AGAIN, I and every other taxpayer winds up paying for them, possibly ad infinitum.

No arguments about the costs, but if I shot the perp, how much it costs the tax payers won't even get a second thought from me. It's my tax money too. Also, if I shot the perp, he'd be dead. Remember, using a gun in self defense is a last resort and is supposed to be a lethal one. One isn't trained to shoot to maim. Shooting a drugged out psychopath in the leg or arm is like wounding a bear. Both aren't going to laydown or walk away.

I encourage you to support measures that will eliminate the CAUSE and not the effect

The causes are many, complicated and expensive to fix. I don't need encouragment to support good countermeasures, but those are few and far between and often victims of bipartisanship. "We didn't come up with the idea, lets shut it down." Both sides.

(if he ever even existed, but that is a topic for another forum)

Ah, I see.