Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

    The President of Hawai'i Raceway Park is asking the Legislature for $50 million in tax credits to build a new raceway at Kalaeloa to replace the current raceway which is on Campbell Industrial Land and whose lease expires next year.

    I love how these special interest groups can lobby to get special exemptions from paying their fair share of taxes, and yet you can't find enough funding to pay for better substitute teachers' salaries!

    Up here in Washington, NASCAR wanted to build a new track too and went to some communities for assistance. Even though the pro-NASCAR lobby was strong (we have "red" counties amidst a "blue" state), even they had to admit what NASCAR wanted in terms of a financial deal was something they weren't willing to fund.

    Our major sports teams all have new facilities, partly funded through City and County taxes, and yet the majority of citizens have probably never gone to a Mariners or Seahawks game...mostly because they can't afford the high ticket prices! It's kind of ironic...I guess it would also help if we had winning teams, too!

    Miulang
    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

  • #2
    Re: Replacing Hawai'i Raceway Park

    Well...lots have been going on since this was posted.

    really...Oahu NEEDS a new race facility. The existing grounds proved unsafe by the the EPA and those who used it.

    If you like to read, you can vist www.hawaiitalks.net, www.forumshawaii.net and, www.paradisecruisers.com on what's been going on. there's a lot of catching up on this.

    In a nutshell, we have only one bill standing, and it's in the process of being view in Financing. One of them had been killed due to the influence of the SORT group who've been lobbying Hanabusa to hear them out. SORT is a group that roughly 10% of the race community, all of them dirt track racers who dislike Mike Oakland, the very person that evicted them from the EPA mandated dirt track, and also because they have not paid their rent on that part of the track for several months before being evicted. They have a louder voice than those who're supporting the new facility because they want to use the existing grounds and have the State condemn the land, also having the C&C make the needed cleanup mandated by the EPA, and all the necessary needs to repair the existing facilities and utilities to comply to new standards by the LUO.

    Giving tax credit is at no cost to the State...fixing a run down track and making it a state project...it's going to cost the State lots.
    www.raceeventshawaii.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Replacing Hawai'i Raceway Park

      Originally posted by kilikopela
      Giving tax credit is at no cost to the State...fixing a run down track and making it a state project...it's going to cost the State lots.
      No... giving a tax credit still costs the State money, in the form of taxes that it would otherwise be collecting.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Replacing Hawai'i Raceway Park

        Originally posted by Glen Miyashiro
        No... giving a tax credit still costs the State money, in the form of taxes that it would otherwise be collecting.
        I dont know how that really works...but I'll understand what I can. you mean to say that whenver someone donates their car to the kidney foundation for tax credit, the state is losing money? what would cost more to the state? condemning the land, fixing the EPA mandates and making the needed repairs and increasing saftey issues regarding the existing grounds? I would think it would cost more to the state to fix that facility.
        www.raceeventshawaii.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Replacing Hawai'i Raceway Park

          Originally posted by kilikopela
          I dont know how that really works...but I'll understand what I can. you mean to say that whenver someone donates their car to the kidney foundation for tax credit, the state is losing money?
          Yup. That's exactly what happens.

          what would cost more to the state? condemning the land, fixing the EPA mandates and making the needed repairs and increasing saftey issues regarding the existing grounds? I would think it would cost more to the state to fix that facility.
          See, now that's a different question, and a fair one to discuss. What would cost more?

          Another question, which is in my mind even more important, is whether it's worth spending state money to build (or otherwise encourage) a race track. If it were me, I'd say No.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Replacing Hawai'i Raceway Park

            about the kidney thing, why is it still ongoing to in the state? and how does tax credit hurt the state's financing?

            about the costs of saving the existing track, I dont have any estimates, though I vaguely remember about the existing track having an estimate of $10M in EPA mandates, WOW...if that's true...that's a lot. I doubt any tax payer would want to hear that the City will be paying over $10M in EPA madates, not even the supporting motorsports enthusiasts. The State has bigger pot holes to fill (pun intended). That's not including the ammount needed to condemn or buy the land (however that works?).. that's a gruelling process that could take too long for the racers oh Oahu, again...that's not included the safety measure needed to make an up to date track facility...if you've been to motorsports on the mainland, and come back to Oahu...you'll see and feel how out dated and unsafe the existing track is. People asked..."whats the difference between then and now?" my answer simply is that we dont have any other choices...so we were left with just that track.

            Also, the existing land is slated to be rezoned as industrial land, like it's neighboring parcels - Group by association if you call it. There are also multiple projects that will be done in West Oahu, there's a proposed retail area, UH West Oahu, Ko Olina expansion...they might say something about the existing track, and call in the EPA again and have them survey the neighboring business, and possibly make further restrictions. Alltogether, we don't really know whats going on.

            You and I agree that the State should have NOTHING to do with FUNDING any race track. I dont agree with you about not ENCOURAGING one at all, especially one that will offer new business to our State.
            www.raceeventshawaii.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Replacing Hawai'i Raceway Park

              Originally posted by kilikopela
              about the kidney thing, why is it still ongoing to in the state? and how does tax credit hurt the state's financing?
              Making a donation to charity gives you a tax credit in the amount that you have donated. If I donate $100 to a charity, I can deduct that $100 from my taxable income for that year. Let's assume that my overall tax rate is, oh, 30%. That means that The Government gets $30 less in taxes from me than they would have gotten if I hadn't made that donation. So the government is out $30, the charity gets $100, and I am out $100 but don't have to pay $30 so I'm actually out a net $70. This is still ongoing because we as a people decided a long time ago that charitable deductions were a Good Idea overall because they gave people an incentive to donate to worthy causes.

              You and I agree that the State should have NOTHING to do with FUNDING any race track. I dont agree with you about not ENCOURAGING one at all, especially one that will offer new business to our State.
              Yup. That's about it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Replacing Hawai'i Raceway Park

                Please bare with me, the whole taxing thing is something of a different language to me

                Originally posted by Glen Miyashiro
                The Government gets $30 less in taxes from me than they would have gotten if I hadn't made that donation. So the government is out $30
                to me, that doesnt explain how the government is dishing out money...it's just money the government didnt get.
                Originally posted by Glen Miyashiro
                the charity gets $100,and I am out $100
                that would be at your own free will.
                Originally posted by Glen Miyashiro
                but don't have to pay $30
                nor do you get $30 back - the credit?
                Originally posted by Glen Miyashiro
                so I'm actually out a net $70
                So where did the $70 go?

                my basic understanding was that, tax credit is like a cushion. Say I made a donation as well $100 to any given one. I do my taxes and I owe $100, but the credit soaks that...now I dont owe anything...which I think is pretty relative to what you're saying...I think that is speaking on a individual sense - what about me? Sorry...I'm trying my hardest to understand the tax thing.

                Also, why dont you think that the State should encourage a party to build a new race facility, even if it's privately funded?
                www.raceeventshawaii.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Replacing Hawai'i Raceway Park

                  I'm not following this too closely, but I have friends who are/were regulars at the track. From what I've read, this Oakland fellow is a piece of work, but ultimately if dirt track racers would rather see a possible new facility torpedoed completely if they're not accommodated ("If we can't race, no one can!"), then I won't be too sympathetic if we end up without one.

                  Of course, ultimately, the rest of us pay for the selfishness, as a few boneheaded racers of all stripes take to public streets or property to get their jollies.

                  I think if "we" can build a gazillion concrete skate parks for teenagers, a case can be made for a decent motorsports facility. But if the government won't do it, private companies and investors are your best bet. No one has any idea exactly what Oakland has in mind, which is a big problem, but I'd settle for a new, but imperfect, track than attempts to condemn land and save the deteriorating track we had.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Replacing Hawai'i Raceway Park

                    true...and I agree with what you're saying. The dirt track racers organized a groupe called Save Oahu's Race Tracks (SORT). They have made allegations and I've even called their bluff on a few occaisions when they suggested that I call DHHL regarding a 5 year "commitment" made by the PASHA group. I called DHHL's Kalaeloa management and they basically told me that, given enough notice..they can move the PASHA group out from Kalaeloa Parcel 9 - the proposed location. Anyway...they continue to attack Mike Oakland - a feud started because the dirt track was taken away their previlages of using the existing dirt track because it was mandated by the EPA and because they have not been paying their rent for several months. If you were a landlord, and your tennant has not payed their rent, how would you deal with it? Yes, at the time...the stock car track was the only place they had, still is...and they want it back. They feedback about the proposed track is that they dont see any provisions to them, they failed to see what a stock car track is, especially when it was clear as day that at stock car track was included in Oaklands design...in a nutshell...it's a dirt track, so Mike Oakland had the dirt racers, very much in mind. They have influenced Senator Colleen Hanabusa, HEAVILY, into killing the HB994 bill. A majority of the dirt track racers reside in Waianae - Hanabusa's district. The SORT group are really not bad people, and they know what they're fighting for...but at the State's expense. Is that fair to the rest of the tax paying community? As a tax payer...the City & County better cater to all the racers needs...not just the dirt track racers.

                    On the other side of the ring, there's Mike Oakland, his group of unnamed investors, and everyone that supports him, myself included. Frankly, I dont know the importance of identifying the investors or the person who owns the existing track's grounds. Should I care? I'm not too sure, and as close as I am to Oakland, I dont even know who they are. I just want a good, new, modern day race track. A privately funded track is the way to go, it's good for the economy because it will bring in new business to Hawaii, and good for us...simpley because Mike Oakland said we deserve a new race track.
                    Last edited by kilikopela; April 7, 2006, 01:54 PM.
                    www.raceeventshawaii.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Replacing Hawai'i Raceway Park

                      Originally posted by kilikopela
                      my basic understanding was that, tax credit is like a cushion. Say I made a donation as well $100 to any given one. I do my taxes and I owe $100, but the credit soaks that...now I dont owe anything...which I think is pretty relative to what you're saying...I think that is speaking on a individual sense - what about me? Sorry...I'm trying my hardest to understand the tax thing.
                      ACK! Sorry, sorry, you're right. I got tax credits mixed up with tax deductions. My earlier example was for deductions, not credits. Yeah, the way tax credits work is that whatever you owe on your tax bill, they'll knock off the amount of your credit from your tax bill. Hmmm... so what if you don't owe anything, and you're actually expecting a tax refund check? If you get a tax credit, does that add to your tax refund, or does it only count if you owe something?

                      Also, why dont you think that the State should encourage a party to build a new race facility, even if it's privately funded?
                      Well, because I don't like racing and I don't think it's something that should be publicly encouraged. Period.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Replacing Hawai'i Raceway Park

                        Originally posted by Glen Miyashiro
                        so what if you don't owe anything, and you're actually expecting a tax refund check? If you get a tax credit, does that add to your tax refund, or does it only count if you owe something?
                        I dont expect a refund because I know that credit basically zeroed out what I would owe. If I owed less, there would be left over credit that I could use during the next tax season...yippie. it's like going to a store, and their sales agreement says that there will be no refund...only credit. So it's something of that sort, to my understanding.
                        Originally posted by Glen Miyashiro
                        Well, because I don't like racing and I don't think it's something that should be publicly encouraged. Period.
                        Fair enough.

                        So, back to my original question, would it cost anything to the State in regards to tax credit bill for the proposed facility, now that we have a better understanding on what tax credit is?
                        Last edited by kilikopela; April 7, 2006, 03:41 PM.
                        www.raceeventshawaii.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Racetracks, Motorsports, and Politics

                          REMINDER!!!

                          It's that time again...to show the legislative branch that Oahu motorsports enthusiasts matter! That we have a say!



                          The Capitol Rally is still on, but has been changed to April 9th from 11AM till 1PM @ the Hawaii State Capitol. Set up time will be 10AM for a limited number of vehicles that have been pre-chosen. We're asking the rest of us to participate by cruising around the state capitol in a friendly and orderly manner, basically the same thing as last year's huge event:

                          2005 State Capitol Cruise

                          For those of you that attended last year, you know it was a huge success, and that we had an overwhelming turnout. Let's do it again! Shoe polish your supportive messages on your windshields, make some banners or signs for the press at the rally, bring out your hottest and quickest rides, be it four wheels or two, and help to keep motorsports alive on Oahu.

                          The entire event will involve promoting the fact that we as motorsports enthusiasts support highway safety...and that means keeping it on the track. Considering that we'll soon be losing our track, this naturally ties in with the support for the new world class facility along with keeping the current track open until the new track is completed.

                          For most of us on this forum, motorsports is a big chunk of our life, and something we do for the enjoyment we derive from it. We are friends, we are family, and we need to show the state legislature that we matter and that we are important.

                          Last year was highly successful...let's blow them away by doing it again!

                          Announcement!

                          Directly after the rally, @ 2PM, a large majority of the supporters for the World Class Facility will be heading down to Dave & Busters located in the Ward Entertainment Center. We're inviting everyone to join us as we'll be hanging out to talk story, and touch base with everyone that's pushing for this facility. If you have questions, that would be a great time to ask, otherwise, we just want everybody to get together, have a good time, and celebrate motorsports on Oahu.

                          We'd love to get the chance to get know everyone that supports the WCF...so come on down, have a drink, play some games, and just have a good time. If enough people turn up, we'll most likely have the third floor opened up for us. If you have any questions or concerns, give me a yell at webmaster@hawaiitalks.net

                          I know I'll be there...I hope to see you there as well.

                          Thanks!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Capitol Rally @ Hawaii State Capitol April 9th, 2006 11AM-1P

                            Here's the planned cruised route:

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Capitol Rally @ Hawaii State Capitol April 9th, 2006 11AM-1P

                              This would be much more effective on a day when the legislators are actually in the building...

                              Good luck.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X