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  • 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

    Headline: "18 people left homeless after fire destroys 2-bedroom apartment"

    See the full story on the Star-Bulletin's website here.

    18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!?!!!
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    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

  • #2
    Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

    The reality of being poor and not homeless on Oahu.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

      That's really kind of sad to hear about things like this. On the one hand, you feel for the people all crammed into that 2-bedroom apartment. On the other hand, you worry, public health wise, if maybe the landlord needs to be monitoring more carefully the number of tenants s/he allows in each unit. There doesn't seem to be a State or County-side ordinance that restricts the number of people who can live in an apartment in Hawai'i. This is ironic, because I'm sure there are covenants and such restricting the number of pets per unit (where allowed) written into some lease agreements. 6 adults and 12 children in a 2-bedroom apartment is not a healthy or safe long term condition, and even in public housing I believe there are limits to the number of people who can live permanently in a unit. Hawai'i is NOT Beijing or Bangalore. We should not tolerate this kind of inhumane crowding into one small apartment.

      Miulang
      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

        Originally posted by Miulang
        That's really kind of sad to hear about things like this. On the one hand, you feel for the people all crammed into that 2-bedroom apartment. On the other hand, you worry, public health wise, if maybe the landlord needs to be monitoring more carefully the number of tenants s/he allows in each unit. There doesn't seem to be a State or County-side ordinance that restricts the number of people who can live in an apartment in Hawai'i. This is ironic, because I'm sure there are covenants and such restricting the number of pets per unit (where allowed) written into some lease agreements. 6 adults and 12 children in a 2-bedroom apartment is not a healthy or safe long term condition, and even in public housing I believe there are limits to the number of people who can live permanently in a unit. Hawai'i is NOT Beijing or Bangalore. We should not tolerate this kind of inhumane crowding into one small apartment.

        Miulang
        I'm sure if they could have afforded something cheaper... they would have...

        I used to live in the northwest.... I'm now paying almost 5 times what I was for the same 1 brm I was in the Pacific Northwest.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

          My guess is they are probably also an immigrant family who are used to living in crowded consitions. It'd almost be better for them to try to get into public housing because even there I'm sure there wouldn't be 18 people crowded into that little (probably less than 1000 sq ft) living space.

          Miulang
          "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

            Hey Miulang

            If we make MORE rules about housing, and kick out those 18 people, don't we have more homeless. This is the exact same attitude that has created the homeless problem. We make rules about Environmental Studies, and Traffic Impact Studies, and Red Tape rules for compliance, and Subdivision standards, and this and that rule for something else. All this INCREASES costs for developers, which in turn raises the price of a dwelling. For 35 years, regulations have been written that impeded the development of dwellings, or increased the overall cost of building. All in the name of "protecting" folks.

            Such is the legacy of the Baby Boomers.

            And through studied cognitive dissonance, they don't see it this way.
            FutureNewsNetwork.com
            Energy answers are already here.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

              Originally posted by timkona
              Hey Miulang

              If we make MORE rules about housing, and kick out those 18 people, don't we have more homeless. This is the exact same attitude that has created the homeless problem. We make rules about Environmental Studies, and Traffic Impact Studies, and Red Tape rules for compliance, and Subdivision standards, and this and that rule for something else. All this INCREASES costs for developers, which in turn raises the price of a dwelling. For 35 years, regulations have been written that impeded the development of dwellings, or increased the overall cost of building. All in the name of "protecting" folks.

              Such is the legacy of the Baby Boomers.

              And through studied cognitive dissonance, they don't see it this way.
              I just find it ironic that landlords have restrictions against the number of pets you can have in a unit but none on the number of people you can cram into one unit. I think the landlords will find that PEOPLE can cause just as much destruction to property as animals do!

              Miulang
              BTW: Those 18 human beings are homeless now anyway, so what's the diff? Some social service agency should try to get the adults (the story didn't say whether it was 3 couples with 4 kids apiece, or 1 couple with 16 kids so it's hard to say what their living situation really was) into subsidized housing (like 3 units if there are 3 couples) rather than cram them all into one small living space.
              Last edited by Miulang; May 8, 2006, 11:30 AM.
              "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

                Most rental lease agreements specify exactly who is supposed to live in the unit. The names of all the occupants are written into the lease agreement, up front. If you sign up with four people, then you are only supposed to have those four people living in the unit. The problem is that if a fifth, sixth, seventh, etc. squeeze in, it is up to the landlord to enforce the lease agreement. Documenting and enforcing occupancy restrictions is a huge pain in the ass, which is why many landlords look the other way and just opt to not renew the tenants' month-to-month, instead of making the effort to evict them.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

                  Maybe not all are actually inside the apartment at the same time. Perhaps some of the adults work during the sleeping hours of others and the children and when they come home the children are in school and the other adults at work. When it comes to occupancy and fire codes I think that applies to the number in a building at any one given time...same goes for health.

                  And we haven't determined the sq footage of the property. I've seen some pretty large two bedroom apartments. Heck the house I was living in Waialae Iki IV ridge was a two bedroom however it could easily handle a party of well over 100 and not be crowded at all. Remember a two-bedroom also contains a living room, dining room/kitchen and possibly a coverd lanai.

                  So before we say "Crammed" we really need to know how big the apartment was.
                  Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

                    Originally posted by Miulang
                    My guess is they are probably also an immigrant family who are used to living in crowded consitions.
                    I must say, Miulang, that I'm surprised -- and disappointed -- that you would "guess" such a thing without having the facts. What makes you think they're an "immigrant family" as opposed to being a local family?
                    .
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                    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

                      Originally posted by timkona
                      We make rules about Environmental Studies, and Traffic Impact Studies, and Red Tape rules for compliance, and Subdivision standards, and this and that rule for something else. All this INCREASES costs for developers
                      Break out the violins, because my heart is breaking for those poor picked-upon developers.
                      .
                      .

                      That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

                        Originally posted by Miulang
                        I just find it ironic that landlords have restrictions against the number of pets you can have in a unit but none on the number of people you can cram into one unit.
                        That's not correct, Miulang. Maybe it's true where you live (Seattle) but not here. Most landlords use the standard rental/lease form provided by the Hawaii Association of Realtors which includes Item 5: No subleasing or additional tenants, other than those who signed the lease, without prior written authorization of the landlord.

                        BTW: Those 18 human beings are homeless now anyway, so what's the diff?
                        Geez, that's not correct either! Re-read the article. The Red Cross is taking care of the family, and that includes housing them for the time being.
                        .
                        .

                        That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

                          Originally posted by craigwatanabe
                          So before we say "Crammed" we really need to know how big the apartment was.
                          I dunno Craig. It's a three story apartment building. Tax records say that the lot itself is 5,190 sq ft, the total building area is 7,650 sq ft, and there are nine units. On average that's less than 900 sq ft per unit. I'd call that "crammed" for 18 people.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

                            Originally posted by Glen Miyashiro
                            I dunno Craig. It's a three story apartment building. Tax records say that the lot itself is 5,190 sq ft, the total building area is 7,650 sq ft, and there are nine units. On average that's less than 900 sq ft per unit. I'd call that "crammed" for 18 people.
                            Yeah but are all the units similar? Some could be one bedroom or even studios.
                            Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 18 people in a 2-bedroom apartment?!

                              Break out the violins, because my heart is breaking for those poor picked-upon developers.

                              It's not the developers who suffer from increased development costs and over-regulation. It's the people at the lowest end of the economic spectrum who suffer from these types of cost increases.

                              A good example of cognitive dissonance is a person who claims to be a homeless advocate while supporting increased environmental or regulatory red tape for development.
                              FutureNewsNetwork.com
                              Energy answers are already here.

                              Comment

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