How come our roads get potholed so fast?

[Glen Miyashiro]

A friend of mine who'd recently moved to Honolulu from America was astonished at the poor condition of the roads here. Back where he was from (someplace in the Midwest), pavements last for years and years without potholes, but here it seems like a newly surfaced road can't go six months before it breaks down.

l wondered whether the road maintenance guys here use cheaper, lower-quality materials. Given the low-bid nature of government contracts, I wouldn't be surprised if that was it. Unless the contract specs call for it, the bidders will use the cheapest stuff they can get away with. And if DOT doesn't hold 'em to a higher standard, then that's what we're stuck with.

I'm no transportation engineer. But does somebody know the answer to this question?

[sinjin]

Re: How come our roads get potholed so fast?

A friend of mine who'd recently moved to Honolulu from America was astonished at the poor condition of the roads here. Back where he was from (someplace in the Midwest), pavements last for years and years without potholes, but here it seems like a newly surfaced road can't go six months before it breaks down.

l wondered whether the road maintenance guys here use cheaper, lower-quality materials. Given the low-bid nature of government contracts, I wouldn't be surprised if that was it. Unless the contract specs call for it, the bidders will use the cheapest stuff they can get away with. And if DOT doesn't hold 'em to a higher standard, then that's what we're stuck with.

I'm no transportation engineer. But does somebody know the answer to this question?

Well I am so let's analyze this. Some possibilities:

Poor quality aggregates. I'm thinking local rock may lack hardness.

Poor quality bituminous materials. Not likely as it is imported and spec'd.

Bad A.C. mix design. Again unlikely.

Poor consolidation during placement. Possible. Rollers of insufficient mass or lacking vibration capability produce inferior pavements.

Poor compaction of subgrade or migration of fine material from the subgrade. Possible and certainly a contributing factor. How big?

My guess would be the poor quality of local aggregates in combination with the nearly constant presence of water saturating the pavement. Because water does not compress it plays hell on pavements when vehicle loading is applied to saturated pavement.

[kimo55]

Re: How come our roads get potholed so fast?

cheapest quickest most substandard paving methods in all the 50 states.
that's why.

[Moto]

Re: How come our roads get potholed so fast?

A friend of mine who'd recently moved to Honolulu from America was astonished at the poor condition of the roads here. Back where he was from (someplace in the Midwest), pavements last for years and years without potholes, but here it seems like a newly surfaced road can't go six months before it breaks down.

l wondered whether the road maintenance guys here use cheaper, lower-quality materials. Given the low-bid nature of government contracts, I wouldn't be surprised if that was it. Unless the contract specs call for it, the bidders will use the cheapest stuff they can get away with. And if DOT doesn't hold 'em to a higher standard, then that's what we're stuck with.

I'm no transportation engineer. But does somebody know the answer to this question?

A lot of cities on the mainland use predominately concrete pavement. It's costlier but last longer. The midwest area with their freeze/thaw cycles usually have problems with moisture that gets into cracks and crevices. This moisture freeze and expands, sometimes with enough force to combine with vehicle loading causing destruction of the pavement. But AC, although cheaper, cannot approach the same life expectancy of Concrete.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: How come our roads get potholed so fast?

But AC, although cheaper, cannot approach the same life expectancy of Concrete.

So what I'd like to know is, if asphalt concrete (AC) wears down faster here in Hawai'i than in North America, has that lower lifespan been factored into the calculations for the long-term cost of roads here? Or is the Hawai'i DOT using the standard industry assumptions based on inappropriate North American data on AC lifespans? AC doesn't seem like such a cheap option, if you have to repave your roads all the time.

[lurkah]

Re: How come our roads get potholed so fast?

AC doesn't seem like such a cheap option, if you have to repave your roads all the time.

Job security should also be factored in there somewhere.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: How come our roads get potholed so fast?

Poor quality aggregates. I'm thinking local rock may lack hardness.

[...]

My guess would be the poor quality of local aggregates in combination with the nearly constant presence of water saturating the pavement. Because water does not compress it plays hell on pavements when vehicle loading is applied to saturated pavement.

Hawaiian AC is made with locally quarried "blue rock" gravel, which is lava rock. I suspect that this stuff is plenty hard.

I noticed once, on a trip to the eastern USA, that the asphalt roads looked different than what I expected to see. On closer inspection, I realized that it was because the aggregate was some kind of light-colored rock, instead of the dark lava rock used in Hawaiian roads, and the rock color was showing through at the surface where the asphalt had worn away.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: How come our roads get potholed so fast?

Poor quality bituminous materials. Not likely as it is imported and spec'd.

Oh, and about the bituminous materials? They're usually locally produced. In fact we just had a shortage when the local plant broke down.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: How come our roads get potholed so fast?

Job security should also be factored in there somewhere.

The cynic in me is convinced that a big part of the answer is probably that DOT is supporting the road construction contractors by making sure they can feed them plenty of work on a regular basis.

But what about everybody else? Hey, if the roads are bad all the time then my job security might be at risk, if it makes me late for work often enough. Not to mention, bad roads drive up transportation costs for everybody's businesses, which translates into higher prices.

[tutusue]

Re: How come our roads get potholed so fast?

During 2005, I incurred approx. $1200. in car repair bills due to potholes. And it wasn't just one pothole that did it...it was the accumulation of damage over time.

The pothole situation is so bad now that I'm constantly swerving to avoid them as are those around me, making driving an extreme sport.

[lurkah]

Re: How come our roads get potholed so fast?

The cynic in me is convinced that a big part of the answer is probably that DOT is supporting the road construction contractors by making sure they can feed them plenty of work on a regular basis.

Yup, it's the old "braddah-braddah" network — everybody gotta eat, and potholes create work for all the mechanics, too.

[CranBeree]

Re: How come our roads get potholed so fast?

just wondering...for damages caused by the potholes, couldn't you get your money back by filing small claims?? i forget what you have to go through to do that.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: How come our roads get potholed so fast?

just wondering...for damages caused by the potholes, couldn't you get your money back by filing small claims?? i forget what you have to go through to do that.

Here's how:

Pothole damage claims
If you think hitting a pothole on a city street damaged your vehicle, you can file a claim with the city corporation counsel. Call 523-4639 for a form. A description of the pothole location and repair bills or damage estimates for the vehicle are required.
(Star-Bulletin )

There's also a C&C of Honolulu Pothole Service Request Form and Phone Line page where you can request pothole repairs.

[tutusue]

Re: How come our roads get potholed so fast?

just wondering...for damages caused by the potholes, couldn't you get your money back by filing small claims?? i forget what you have to go through to do that.

I was told that the cumulative damage would be hard to collect. I didn't hit a pothole and go "oops, I broke sumthin'". The damage was discovered during routine servicing. And, yes, I have a VERY honest mechanic! He and I have been doing the car dance for 22 years!

[sinjin]

Re: How come our roads get potholed so fast?

Hawaiian AC is made with locally quarried "blue rock" gravel, which is lava rock. I suspect that this stuff is plenty hard.

I was aware that lava is the rock used. I'll check into it but if memory serves lava is not particularly hard rock. You can't break granite with a dozer but I've seen lava excavated with relatively little effort.