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Tsunami-Prone Tsunami Center?

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  • Tsunami-Prone Tsunami Center?

    As reported yesterday by the Star-Bulletin and Honolulu Advertiser, a group called Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER) is crying foul on the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) decision to not co-locate its Pacific Tsunami Warning Center to "high ground" at Diamond Head, and instead set it up on Ford Island.

    NOAA is apparently consolidating several of its offices there, and the Tsunami Warning Center is just one of them. But the plan to put a Tsunami Warning Center on a relatively isolated, flat little island has certainly raised eyebrows.

    NOAA says the Tsunami Warning Center would be on the third floor of its new complex, and notes the state Civil Defense office doesn't list Ford Island as an "inundation zone." The PEER folks counter that the island was never evaluated for tsunami risk because of the military's trademark reluctance to share facility information, and that being on the third floor only means the new center would stay dry, not remain accessible or functional. Even the folks who work at the Tsunami Warning Center today have problems with the plan. The Diamond Head location would separate it from the NOAA mother ship, but it would also foster better interagency communication since other emergency offices are located there.

    Of course, the Tsunami Warning Center is currently in an inundation zone in Ewa Beach. A spot where they'd already recently invested some funds in refurbishing...

    Anyway, this odd story has gotten some traction in the national press.

  • #2
    Re: Tsunami-Prone Tsunami Center?

    If they are building a new building they should make the place at least 6 stories high. Put the center on the 6th floor rather than the 3rd floor.

    Or lacking that build a hill on Ford Island.

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    • #3
      Re: Tsunami-Prone Tsunami Center?

      Ford Island is on the National Register of Historic Places. But the ongoing construction and development there has caused some to say it's endangered. I'm surprised a three-story structure is in the works, and I doubt they'd go for a six-story building.

      I also think turning "Ford Island" into "Ford Mound" would also be a bit of a nonstarter!

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      • #4
        Re: Tsunami-Prone Tsunami Center?

        Howard Dicus seemed to enjoy the irony of this story on KHON this morning. He was talking about the millions to be spent for the Ford Island relocation from one tsunami zone to another.
        Aloha from Lavagal

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        • #5
          Re: Tsunami-Prone Tsunami Center?

          They make the case for high rise buildings in Waikiki while in the zone go up to at least the 3rd floor to stay safe.

          I figured NOAA would have at least build new and better buildings on empty spaces instead of redoing old buildings.

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          • #6
            Re: Tsunami-Prone Tsunami Center?

            I had a discussion about this with my father, who is very, very familiar with Pearl Harbor in general and Ford Island specifically. He worked on Ford for most of his naval and post-naval career in Hawaii. He says that Ford Island is not in a tsunami inundation zone, and the reason isn't that the military doesn't share its info. It's not in a tsunami inundation zone because even the worst conceivable tsunami would never make it to Ford -- it would have too much land to pass over before it ever got there.

            That's one man's opinion, of course, but it's a pretty good point.
            But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
            GrouchyTeacher.com

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            • #7
              Re: Tsunami-Prone Tsunami Center?

              Originally posted by scrivener
              He says that Ford Island is not in a tsunami inundation zone, and the reason isn't that the military doesn't share its info. It's not in a tsunami inundation zone because even the worst conceivable tsunami would never make it to Ford -- it would have too much land to pass over before it ever got there.
              I sincerely doubt the "worst conceivable tsunami would never make it to Ford." I mean, the Indonesian tsunami was hardly the "worst conceivable tsunami," but destruction was wreaked nearly two miles inland, including areas with much steeper terrain than southern O'ahu.

              Sure, the island is nestled deep in Honolulu harbor, but it is in a harbor. Ford Island itself is flat as a pancake, barely above sea level, and frankly, so is a lot of the "land" surrounding and supposedly protecting it.

              Tsunami aren't just wave fronts, they're essentially a massive and sudden increase in sea level. I don't think Ford Island will be wiped off the face of the earth, but it'll get swamped, and access will likely be cut off at least temporarily (the bridge is a "floating" bridge, after all!). Would a tsunami center there be destroyed? Maybe not. But if you were going to pick a spot for such a center, I just can't see how a flat harbor island is your top choice.

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              • #8
                Re: Tsunami-Prone Tsunami Center?

                Originally posted by pzarquon
                I mean, the Indonesian tsunami was hardly the "worst conceivable tsunami,"
                Indeed. Watch for a show called "Mega Tsunami" on the Discovery channel; they repeat it every now and then. They've recently found proof of a tsunami in a bay in Alaska where the wave was over 1,500 feet high. That's not a typo. It was 1,500 feet.
                Most 'regular' tsunami rarely go over 30', so that's like, you know, half-a-bazillion times bigger. And apparently the mega-tsunami happen every couple of thousand years.
                Consider: A mega-tsunami could be double the height of Diamond Head (which is about 900').
                Discuss.

                But if you were going to pick a spot for such a center, I just can't see how a flat harbor island is your top choice.
                Logic would certainly seem to dictate that, indeed.
                .
                .

                That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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                • #9
                  Re: Tsunami-Prone Tsunami Center?

                  A quick check of the Discovery Channel's website turned up these:

                  Click here for info on a 1,600' mega-tsunami that hit HAWAI`I.

                  Click here for photos of a tsunami that hit Laie Point on O`ahu.

                  And the schedule for the Mega-Tsunami show on the Discovery channel, with 6 airings in July, is availabe by clicking here.
                  .
                  .

                  That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Tsunami-Prone Tsunami Center?

                    Originally posted by LikaNui
                    Indeed. Watch for a show called "Mega Tsunami" on the Discovery channel; they repeat it every now and then. They've recently found proof of a tsunami in a bay in Alaska where the wave was over 1,500 feet high. That's not a typo. It was 1,500 feet.
                    Most 'regular' tsunami rarely go over 30', so that's like, you know, half-a-bazillion times bigger. And apparently the mega-tsunami happen every couple of thousand years.
                    Did the show mention what caused the Tsunami? Was it due to earthquakes or a meteor hitting the ocean? Or a volcano expolding?

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                    • #11
                      Re: Tsunami-Prone Tsunami Center?

                      Originally posted by helen
                      Did the show mention what caused the Tsunami? Was it due to earthquakes or a meteor hitting the ocean? Or a volcano expolding?
                      None of the above. It was caused by a landslide.
                      .
                      .

                      That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Tsunami-Prone Tsunami Center?

                        If there was a 1,500 foot tsunami, almost everybody on Oahu should probably bend over and kiss their okoles goodbye. Wouldn't matter where the heck the NOAA station was located on Oahu.

                        You'd have to figure out a way to get to the top of the Koolaus or the Waianae Mountains to avoid that wave. Most of the rest of the island is no more than 250 ft high in elevation.

                        "...The Koolau Mountain Range parallels the northeast coast for most of its length. The portion of the range between Makapuu Point and the Mokapu Peninsula has a sheer rocky cliff on its seaward side. The cliff is nearly 2,000 ft (610 m) high in some places. The entire range has a jagged appearance and is cut on its inland side by deep gorges and valleys. The highest elevation in the Koolau Range is 3,150 ft (960 m) at a point approximately five nmi northeast of Honolulu.

                        The Waianae Range parallels the southwest coast of Oahu between Kaena and Barbers Points. Elevations over most of its length commonly exceed 2,000 ft (610 m). The highest elevation in the range is 4,046 ft (1,233 m). Several peaks exceed 3,000 ft (914 m) in height. An extensive plain lies in a valley between the Koolau and Waianae ranges...."



                        Miulang
                        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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