Mainland Chains vs. Island Culture

[kimo55]

you want stuff on the mainland, Speed? MOVE to the phaquin mainland.

I just added you to my a-list, you must be from the mainland cuz you just iz rude.

sorry, nope. rude is the fact our islands are getting overrun with junk so we no longer have the island culture we all knew for years here. conveying aloha each and every minute of our lives has its limits. then we gotta say. wait just a minute. Our islands and way of life are being destroyed.
this aloha spirit promised by the HVCB and demanded by tourists will be the only thing here left in Hawaii that is from the old Hawaii. because Oahu now resembles any major city in california.
"rude" is demanding still another corporate chain from the USA to plop down on our islands.
"I want what I saw in San fernando valley! whaaaa!"
when will people be satisfied? never. that's quite rude.
One is mistaken if one assumes we must all sit and smile pleasantly while we watch our Hawaii we have known and loved for decades, quickly disappear.

[admin]

Re: Mainland Chains vs. Island Culture

If you want to discuss whether the influx of mainland chain stores, restaurants and businesses are bad for Hawaii, this is the place to do it. Subsequent rants of this ilk posted to other threads set up to discuss specific businesses will be moved here.

See also:

• Businesses I Would Miss
• Walgreens in Hawaii
• Good Guys Coming to Hawaii
• Ikea Here I Come!
• Target Coming to Hawaii

[helen]

Re: Mainland Chains vs. Island Culture

It's no doubt you want this to stop Kimo but do you also want to turn back the clock as well to some point in the past?

Do you want all mainland chains to go away? Some of them already have. Woolworths and J.C. Pennys are gone. Do you want to have Sears to go away as well?

Are talking about doing this on the state level or just on Oahu?

[kimo55]

Re: Mainland Chains vs. Island Culture

Do you want all mainland chains to go away?

GO.. away? I am not conveying my point very well, it seems, even with all my years of ranting on this subject on HT.
the preVENTion of this pernicious influx.
this is what i am saying.
del taco? WHY fer christ's sake?! we have TOO many fast food chains here already. we have enuff mexican food stops.

the death of woolworths and others is another subject. the argument that bigbox chains with cheap products and no service have destroyed the cool 5 and dimes of yesteryear.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Mainland Chains vs. Island Culture

I remember finding myself in a mall in Auckland. I wanted to buy something cool for each of my kids, like a sweatshirt/hoodie, but with some unknown brand name, so that my kids might find that cool.

Everything was Billabong and all those other brands that we see here. I was dismayed!!! Upon talking to the Maori who were hosting us, I was reminded again about the pernicious effect known as global (or benign) hegemony.

[Miulang]

Re: Mainland Chains vs. Island Culture

I, for one, could never understand why a tourist spending beaucoup bux to spend a week or two in Hawai'i would want to go into a chain restaurant or big box retail store. Whenever I visit, I try to patronize local restaurants and stores as much as possible (one exception, Costco).

If cable TV had never been invented, would the population of Hawai'i even know about most of the stuff they crave unless they travelled to the Mainland?

Would I be happy with National Dollar Store, Ben Franklin, Kress Store, Peggy & Johnny's, Ooka Supermarket, TK Supermarket, Noda Market and all the little mom and pops that used to exist? Could I survive knowing that it all wasn't available to me on Sunday or after 6 p.m. other days? That's the way it used to be on Maui in the 60s and 70s and even some of the early 80s.

I think the problem is the more you see, the more you want. The more you want, the more you think you need to have, whether you really do or not.

Miulang

[sinjin]

Re: Chris Scanlan buys up Jack in the Box

you want stuff on the mainland, Speed? MOVE to the phaquin mainland.

sorry, nope. rude is the fact our islands are getting overrun with junk so we no longer have the island culture we all knew for years here. conveying aloha each and every minute of our lives has its limits. then we gotta say. wait just a minute. Our islands and way of life are being destroyed.
this aloha spirit promised by the HVCB and demanded by tourists will be the only thing here left in Hawaii that is from the old Hawaii. because Oahu now resembles any major city in california.
"rude" is demanding still another corporate chain from the USA to plop down on our islands.
"I want what I saw in San fernando valley! whaaaa!"
when will people be satisfied? never. that's quite rude.
One is mistaken if one assumes we must all sit and smile pleasantly while we watch our Hawaii we have known and loved for decades, quickly disappear.

The husband of a friend of my youth was a regional manager for Red Lobster restaurants. He was once telling me of his experience with the restaurant they opened in Lahaina IIRC. He says to me, "you know those people really didn't want us there." He was surprised that the jobs they brought to town weren't enough to get a warm reception. He also mentioned the unreliable help and generally poor attitudes of same. I believe the restaurant folded in near record time.

[pzarquon]

Re: Mainland Chains vs. Island Culture

the preVENTion of this pernicious influx.

Of course it's about stopping more from coming here, rather than turning back the clock and elminating pesky Mainland elements that are already here. After all, turn the clock back far enough, and our dear Kimo would vanish as well.

As I've said before, Kimo, the passion with which you defend your adopted home is impressive. But the voice with which you speak can sometimes ring hollow. Someone whose family has been pushed aside for generations? I can understand them howling to the heavens about the things they've lost. But speaking out so emphatically and reliably about people and business moving here when you moved here sounds more like, "Now that I've got my piece of paradise, I'll be damned if I let anyone else get in on the action."

You've said before, the Hawaiian culture needs more voices, for those within who don't, won't, or can't speak for themselves. And I see where you're coming from. But I'd be careful with how emphatically I use the word "we," whether speaking for folks at HawaiiThreads or in Hawaii in general.

As for the death of five and dimes? It is sad. And sure, WalMart and Costco and other huge retailers are a big part of that. But, hey, no one is forcing locals to give their business to those Mainland chains. Loyalty only goes so far, especially in Hawaii where blood must be squeezed from pennies.

And the fact of the matter is, many long-time "mom and pops" have closed simply because the owners are ready to retire... and their 'ohana, for whatever reason, isn't interested in staying in the business. That's sad, too... but it ain't Target's fault.

[tikiyaki]

Re: Mainland Chains vs. Island Culture

I, for one, could never understand why a tourist spending beaucoup bux to spend a week or two in Hawai'i would want to go into a chain restaurant or big box retail store. Whenever I visit, I try to patronize local restaurants and stores as much as possible (one exception, Costco).
Miulang

As a tourist from the mainland, I totally concur with what you say, however there are some big boxes that were very helpful on my stays on your Islands...

Wal Mart - oddly enough, the WalMart in Kona was the first Wal Mart I'd ever been in in my life. We don't have Wal Mart in LA, only in far out surrounding areas. For a tourist in Honolulu, being able to drop off your memory chip from your digital camera at 8:00 at night, and have 500 plus photos loaded onto CD's and make room on your chip for another 500 photos, in an hour's time while you go eat all you can eat crab legs at Pagoda, was a huge convenience.

Also, being able to buy extra duffle bags for a nice low price so you can bring back more tikis was a convenience too. This was also from Wal Mart.

From the "tourists" point of view...the convenience of going somewhere you know to get stuff like that out of the way, leaves you more time for the important stuff, like seeing all the cool places, and doing the cool stuff.


Also, Starbucks....(I can hear the hissing from the Peanut Gallery)...sorry but those triple espressos are just necessary for waking up. But, when there is no Starbucks, I'll find a cool local mom and pop.
Other than that, it's ALL ABOUT the local stuff that you can't get on the mainland...especially restaurants.

I specifically avoided staying in Waikiki because I know it's just another city like LA now. Instead I stayed in Makaha, which, from what I was told, is about as "local" as it gets on Oahu. I loved it. People were nice, scenery is really nice up there, just that traffic on Farrington Hwy was a bummer.

I myself wonder why people shell out big $$$ to stay in Waikiki instead of all the other really amazing places on the Island.I go to get awayfrom that kind of thing.

[Bard]

Re: Mainland Chains vs. Island Culture

I think the problem is the more you see, the more you want. The more you want, the more you think you need to have, whether you really do or not.

And ain't that the truth, about a lot of things in modern society...

[cezanne]

Re: Mainland Chains vs. Island Culture

What I don't understand is the Walmarts and HomeDepots popping up within a rocks throw of each other (on Oahu anyway). Now they have plans for another WalMart in Kapolei this one is gonna be a Supercenter. It's funny I go to the Walmarts in Vegas.... so not busy.

Maybe cannot stop the big boxes from setting up camp but maybe we could limit them.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Mainland Chains vs. Island Culture

I see kimo's point and think I grasp the motivation behind it, but it does make me think about a couple of points.

> While I don't think there's anyone on HT who would be in favor of what might be called the "Californication" of Hawai`i (with apologies to those who are proud of their CA connections), at the same time, if NO chains of any kind (restaurants, department stores, big-boxes) opened Island locations, do you think that would have a noticeable effect on increased prices of foods and goods shipped in? If only locally-based stores carried products that came from the continent, without the volume buying power of a chain, how much would you have to pay for major items? Would the prices be so prohibitively high that no local businesses could afford to sit on any inventory, in the hopes SOMEONE would come along and pay whatever they have to charge? Or would there be a new structure in place where you do most of your ordering on-line, and pay extra shipping to receive the goods in Hawai`i?

> As for the disapperance of mom-n-pops/five-&-dimes, that's endemic to most of the first world. (Which may well be kimo's point: it has happened elsewhere - can we stop it from happening here?) Is kimo's viewpoint in the minority in Hawai`i? Or will he be outvoted by Island residents who will demand the same amenities that are found elsewhere?

Change is inevitable (except from a vending machine) - but will people be involved in the kinds of changes that occur, or will they just sit back and say "nuthin' I can do"? I've seen communities, even neighborhoods, that have only allowed chains to come in IF they follow distinct restrictions as to what their buildings can look like, how much they buy their supplies locally, etc. Aren't there similar covenants in some Island towns? If the chain can prove to be a "good neighbor," might they be more welcome?

As for pz's comment re: "I've got mine, the rest of you stay out" - that's endemic in Seattle, too. That will always exist in places that can say "no ka oi."

[Bard]

Re: Mainland Chains vs. Island Culture

I've seen communities, even neighborhoods, that have only allowed chains to come in IF they follow distinct restrictions as to what their buildings can look like, how much they buy their supplies locally, etc.

Portland still only has one Wal-Mart, and it's not a super. That's not for lack of trying on WM's part. It can be done as long as people recognize that it's something they want to do in large enough numbers to make a difference.

Then again that's probably what konaguy(?) would refer to as the "politics of no"

I think that's the biggie: what's most important to you (and more importantly, the majority of people living around you) at the end of the day, the almighty dollar or maintaining the local feel of your area? Not meaning to be condescending there, I know in more expensive/remote areas a lot of the time people have no choice.

[speedtek]

Re: Mainland Chains vs. Island Culture

I grew up in old Hawaii in the 60's. I am normally against large developments in certain areas. Everytime I sell a new condo going up I cringe. I understand people need jobs and the island needs to grow but I wish people would stop being so selfish and concentrate on the problems at hand. I myself don't like big changes and wish that everything could just remain the same but upkeep the buildings and areas around town a little better. When I was young there was a gas station on every corner. NOW if you are running low on gas you have to plan how far it is to another station before you run out.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Mainland Chains vs. Island Culture

I grew up in old Hawaii in the 60's.

The clock is running...how long before someone pops in with a comment on "old Hawai`i in the 60's - you gotta be kidding me"?