Left v. Right on HT

[matapule]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

I think its a bit unfair to characterize myself strictly a right leaning individual. Yes I do have some right leaning views, but I also have views that could be characterized as moderate.

Here is the problem with what you say. The moderate or centrist view as been moved way to the right of center with the Presidency of Reagan and continuing since. Your "moderate" views of today would have been far to the right of Goldwater at that time. You may characterize your views as "moderate" but that may not be how others perceive them.

[Konaguy]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

Just as the more left-leaning posters run the gamut from strongly liberal/progressive to just slightly left-of-center, there are many HT’ers who tend to fall more often to the right side of the spectrum to one degree or another. Amongst the ones who come to mind right away (and I know I am missing several others) are Mel, TimKona, Bobinator, Nobunaga, Walkoff Balk, Konaguy, Scrivener, CraigWatanabe, Sansei, NachoDaddy, Escondido100 and BJD392. There’s no dearth of conservative opinion expressed here.

I think its a bit unfair to characterize myself strictly a right leaning individual. Yes I do have some right leaning views, but I also have views that could be characterized as moderate.

[tutusue]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

[...]The city in question didn't by executing a flawed contract....

This was going to be my next question...What did the contract state?!

There - nobody's happy!

Your solution makes total sense to me!

I don't know if that is a Left or Right solution! to get us back on topic.

I guess we'll find out when we see who disagrees!

[matapule]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

If he's unable to pay his electricity bill then the electricity is cut off. So much for food safety. Ditto for his phone and internet which could be so necessary to help him find a job. If he misses enough car payments his car is repossessed making job hunting and trips to the doctor for his children that much more difficult. Miss enough mortgage payments and...foreclosure. Miss enough rent payments and...eviction.

Don't know about every location but California has a "safety net" to prevent the above from happening to the truly indigent. So no, that doesn't happen to the indigent. The program is funded by general tax revenue and the Baggers in California want to eliminate that.............unless they are the one who is indigent!

Do you know if the privately contracted fire dept. stood by to assist those homeowners in case the fire spread?

Don't know, it wasn't reported. As I recall this incident occured in Kentucky, Bagger Central. But yes, the irresponsible actions of the private fire contractor put the whole neighborhood in danger.

Care to share your "mutually agreeable solution"?!

I was in City government in California. By law the primary charge of City governement is "to protect the public health, safety, and welfare." Those words are etched indelibly in my mind. Now you can protect the public safety with either a public or private fire company. The city in question didn't by executing a flawed contract.

Our solution:

1. The private fire contractor should be contracted to respond to all fires, whether the account is up to date or not.
2. The fire contractor should take whatever means is legally available to them to collect accounts receivable (e.g. small claims court)
3. The city should pay for the cost of the response provided by the contractor to that specific fire if the account is in arrears. The city can then lien the property for the cost of that service just like they do for property tax due.
4. When and if the account is made current plus penalties, the private contractor reimburses the city for the cost of that response and the city removes the lien.
5. The home owner will be resposnsible for any past due accounts and liens (plus interest and penalties) at the time he sells his property.

There - nobody's happy! I don't know if that is a Left or Right solution! to get us back on topic.

[tutusue]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

I don't agree Tutu. I don't know which thread to post this response.

The home owner didn't pay because he lost his job! He was using his unemployment benefits to buy groceries for his family and make house payments, just to exist. Because of that, we are saying he deserved to have his house burn down? Because he is destitute? Because he is down on his luck? There but for the grace of god go I and all the rest of us too!

Uaifi and matapule went round and round about this for an hour. We finally arrived at a mutually agreeable solution that would not please any of the parties involved.

Blessed Be, all of us.

I completely understand what you're saying and don't really disagree with you, btw. I just stated it poorly. Instead of "don't mind" I should've written "understand" (not to be confused with "approve"). But, based on other situations, this rationale tends to apply. Take that same out of work gentleman trying to provide for his family. If he's unable to pay his electricity bill then the electricity is cut off. So much for food safety. Ditto for his phone and internet which could be so necessary to help him find a job. If he misses enough car payments his car is repossessed making job hunting and trips to the doctor for his children that much more difficult. Miss enough mortgage payments and...foreclosure. Miss enough rent payments and...eviction.

In the fire scenario, what impressed me the most was the danger his paid-in-full neighbors were exposed to. Do you know if the privately contracted fire dept. stood by to assist those homeowners in case the fire spread? Or did that fire dept. refuse to leave the station? With a fire dept. funded by taxpayers, the gentleman's house stood a chance of being saved, regardless of his job loss.

And, I agree, I don't know if this belongs in this thread except it shows how fast life can spiral out of control. Government is necessary.

Care to share your "mutually agreeable solution"?!

[Peshkwe]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

Hummm....

I'm more into anarchy than Gandhi and Mandela, pretty even with the Dali Lama in that, but over farther to the right than he is.

[matapule]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

While I don't mind the private fire dept. not responding to a fire at the home of a delinquent account,

I don't agree Tutu. I don't know which thread to post this response.

The home owner didn't pay because he lost his job! He was using his unemployment benefits to buy groceries for his family and make house payments, just to exist. Because of that, we are saying he deserved to have his house burn down? Because he is destitute? Because he is down on his luck? There but for the grace of god go I and all the rest of us too!

Uaifi and matapule went round and round about this for an hour. We finally arrived at a mutually agreeable solution that would not please any of the parties involved.

Blessed Be, all of us.

[matapule]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

The biggest problem I found with no AOAO/HOA was exterior maintenance.

My biggest pet peeve is dogs. Even though our HOA has rules about dogs, dog owners refuse to follow them. I really get upset when an owner from another building brings their dog to crap at the entrance to ours and then leave it there. If they get caught they will be fined. If no rules, there wouldn't be any way to control that nuisance. And this is an even greater problem with living in a single family home. The fact that YOU have to clean your front yard for people who let their dogs dump their yard bombs in front of your house. Please don't misunderstand, I love dogs.......when they are on a leash and the owner carries a bag for cleanup.

I'm still waiting for Kaonohi to respond to your questions. Since he doesn't want any rules, I wonder if he would volunteer for the neighborhood poop patrol. I wonder how he would feel about rules if he had to go out everyday and cleanup the neighbor's dog !@#%?

[tutusue]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

We like condo living with an HOA for the same reasons you do. It is not perfect, but better than the alternatives. No rules/no regulations = anarchy. [...]

The biggest problem I found with no AOAO/HOA was exterior maintenance. The townhouse project had a series of buildings that included from 4 to 8 townhomes per building. There were no rules for painting. There were no rules for the common roof. There was no continuity of fences or green areas. Some carports were used as storage by their residents and looked like a tenement. There were no rules forbidding that. I didn't find the behavior of the residents a problem, however, just their choices on what to do with "their" exteriors, even tho' the facade ran evenly across the buildings! If a resident did have a problem with another unit there was no BoD to complain to! One had to address the owner directly. My portion of the roof had leaks and needed to be replaced. The owners of the other 3 units weren't experiencing leaks and would not agree to replace the entire roof and split the cost evenly. I ended up replacing my 1/4, hoping that it wouldn't create leaks for the units on either side of me. Must admit, tho', since I was flipping that unit I didn't really care about long term.

I do have a problem with privatizing certain services with this post by matapule in another thread as an example. While I don't mind the private fire dept. not responding to a fire at the home of a delinquent account, my concern is for the neighbors.

I can't imagine a government like that, at any level. Oh wait, that wouldn't be a government at all. As you mentioned...anarchy.

[matapule]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

I know what it's like to live in a townhouse project that had no association of apartment

We like condo living with an HOA for the same reasons you do. It is not perfect, but better than the alternatives. No rules/no regulations = anarchy. Mexico has way fewer societal rules than the US. But personal gun ownership is no permite. So if you are caught with a gun, you are going to jail, no ifs, ands, or buts. The "no rules" society in Mexico is interesting. Stop signs and traffic signals are optional! Its up to you if you want to stop. I wonder if Kaonohi would like living here? Guns don't kill people here.......cars do! One of the highest auto accident rates in the world. But that's one example of what "no rules" gets for a society.

BTW, good questions for Kaonohi. I eargerly await his answers.

[tutusue]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

[...]
I like Freedom, and I want to keep it. - Or at least get it back - we have lost too much.

A slightly off-topic anecdote...
I never, ever felt I would like living in a multi-unit building (condo or townhouse). Then, about 20 years ago, it made sense to be able to lock one door and walk away for extended visits to the mainland without having to worry about exterior upkeep and multiple entry points for potential pilferers. The multiple-unit way of life comes with a large set of rules (both house rules and by-laws) that many residents (owners & tenants) grumble about and consider a loss of freedom. I know what it's like to live in a townhouse project that had no association of apartment owners (AOAO), therefore no rules. OMG! Condo living is a mini-government (board of directors enforced) that's within a C&C government that's within a state government that's within a federal government. We need to have rules/laws because we're human beings with all of our warts and quirks.

That anecdote leads me to curious but serious questions with respectful intentions, for you, Kaonohi...
What freedoms have we lost that are important to you?
What freedoms have we lost that you feel are important to our society as a whole?
When did we lose these freedoms?
What current freedoms do you feel are in jeopardy?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

The Bagger Anthem!

Yet Kaonohi is clearly no TeaBagger (based on his posted opinions over time), and I don't know that the ideals of the Libertarian Party will work for him either. I suspect he's like so many of us - fed up not only with the two-party structure, but not pleased with any of the current alternative organized parties.

At your dinner, I would have been curious to hear the former Calgarian's take on how a parliamentary system would work in the U.S. I've long thought that such a structure would permit more voices to be represented in legislative discussions, from a wider value range. People with opposing perspectives on one set of issues sometimes find themselves more open to compromise on others.

Yet the Canadian system has shown major, major flaws in recent years as well. Despite the perception of civility regarding our northern neighbors, their politicians can be as cutting and insulting as our own, and the party presently in power (the Canadian equivalent to the GOP) is as manipulative as any American one. Even with a Parliament, they basically have only two strong national parties, with names even more obvious regarding their places on the spectrum (Liberal and Conservative parties); the other parties that ever make any inroads include the NDP (more like the American Green Party, even though there is a Green Party in Canada) and the Bloc Québécois (one of their tenets is the separation of the province of Québéc, to be a nation outside of Canada).

[matapule]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

That's what bugs me about the "two-party system," we get programmed into thinking there are only two parties

Matapule and uaifi were at a dinner party last night with neighbors. Original home locations were Chicago, Phoenix, Calgary, and SoCal. The conversation turned to politics and it readily became apparent that, although not planned that way, it was a decidedly Democrat orientation. There was a lot of forth and back about the pros and cons of the Obama Administration. When they returned back to their casa, uaifii said to matapule, " Tonight, for the first time, I realized I am not a Democrat. The Democrats are entirely too conservative for me." Well, matapule knows that uaifi is not a Communist, she is way to independent to be a Commie. And she is not a Libertarian, she considers them just another name for Baggers. So what's left? Matapule is registered in the Green Party. It's good to be Green (and time for a new avatar).

Because we perceive our rights are being eroded by Democratic parentalism.

So the Republicans are now the face of the Libertarian Party? You could have fooled me (not).

especially if the UN trashes our second amendment like they plan.

BS. You are being influenced by the "liar, liar, pants on fire" network

I like Freedom, and I want to keep it. - Or at least get it back - we have lost too much.

The Bagger Anthem!

[Kaonohi]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

True story...
My dad, a diehard Eisenhower fan, did not align with either party. While registering for the 1952 primary he refused to register with either party, stating he wasn't partial to either one. In order to vote he had to register as one or the other.

That's what bugs me about the "two-party system," we get programmed into thinking there are only two parties - a nefarious scheme foisted upon us by the trilateral commission and the other world-domination group (whose name I forget). (Purposely!)

I believe that most of our history in the USA saw more than two parties at one time, and that the Republicans and Democrats were actually part of a single party! (Read it and weep!)

Are we being snowed? Of course. It's LONG overdue time to expand the number of parties so our views can be adequately addressed. The strongest, and growing, 'third' party is the Libertarians - why? Because we perceive our rights are being eroded by Democratic parentalism.

I don't register with my party, I register as the opposition party so I can vote in their primaries. By selecting the least-viable candidate, I try to block their plans. It does no good, but it feels good.

I feel I am neither left nor right, but what do I know? I just believe in Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. Time for another Revolution... we missed our chance with Good King George W., but it is coming. Pray it is peaceful, for I fear it won't be, especially if the UN trashes our second amendment like they plan.

I like Freedom, and I want to keep it. - Or at least get it back - we have lost too much.

[surlygirly]

Re: Left v. Right on HT

But to say you don't watch or read leads me to believe either the sources are hearsay, the non-participant really doesn't know what's going on, or you've got to be some genius with an implanted chip in your brain who is all-knowing and all powerful (but would rather complain about stuff than fix it) .

No, I don't watch the news as a reliable source of information. I get my info mainly from my college classes, textbooks, and other like sources. I realize some of these could be biased as well, but put like that- what source is not biased to some degree?