Racial divide and schools?

[sinjin]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

I asserted that the two dictionaries might have a point and shouldn't be dismissed so easily.

No you didn't. You said:

I do believe that the definition 1b (for a good reason b and not a) should not and cannot be contested.

I did not suggest they're a definite answer or unchangeable

Sounds a lot like that.

You are too personal and judgemental and so were the posters you defend.

I guess I'm not as impressed with you as you are.

Beyond the first few posts my main issue was with the form and the content (or lack thereof) and that is certainly where a few people might learn a thing or two.

You first.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

I defended myself a little too fervently perhaps, I will admit to having a bit of a short fuse, I speak my mind openly and don’t like to be silenced without good cause. ... I could have handled it better.

... although I was trying to prove a point, I was more likely to hurt than anything else. I do apologize to any of the readers, but certainly not to any of the active participants of this thread.

Interesting viewing, the back of your hand. Aim it somewhere else.

(And you can't dismiss your homophobic comment with an "I'm not 100% politically correct" non-apology, either. Well - I guess you can - but it carries no weight.)

[reineke]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Crap. I missed adding "in such a manner". You made a good point. I did point out however that one definition was already revised. I also pointed out that there is a good reason that definition a (Native Hawaiian) is a. B is an appendage, to be discussed. A was never contested. My first sentence did not come out right. I am sorry if it sounded like I was passing a cosmic law. I also said I might easily change my mind (whether or not anyone cares is irrelevant but thank you all for pointing it out so many times). I have already admitted my shortcomings. I think I have humbled myself enough in my previous posts, I have never claimed any special qualities nor was I aiming to impress you. I was basically chatting, splashing around carefree, then I got attacked by sharks. However unimpressed you (or others) might have been with me, this was not the way to lead a discussion.

[reineke]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Interesting viewing, the back of your hand. Aim it somewhere else.

(And you can't dismiss your homophobic comment with an "I'm not 100% politically correct" non-apology, either. Well - I guess you can - but it carries no weight.)

My comment was not homophobic. I am not dismissing it. I was perhaps too comfortable using strong language. Whether or not that is ok with you is another matter.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

My comment was not homophobic.

Calling something "gay as hell" (and certainly with the negative connotation in your statement) is homophobic. No way around it, other than to admit your ignorance.

[reineke]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Calling something "gay as hell" (and certainly with the negative connotation in your statement) is homophobic. No way around it, other than to admit your ignorance.

Quoting "The Most Noble Order of the Garter" struck me as gay in this context. It seemed funny coming from a guy acting tough and threatening me with his "bruddahs". I may have stooped to his level but I dare say I staid a few steps above. "Gay" is not a bad word, and certain things or occurences might seem "gay" because they are or seem to be such. Whether or not the listener finds this remark offensive depends on whether HE is homophobic or not. There are other words that are "homophobic" and hurtful, gay is certainly not one of them. If you can convince me it is, I will admit so. And we can hug and make up. Or would that be too... much?

[Miulang]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Quoting "The Most Noble Order of the Garter" struck me as gay in this context. It seemed funny coming from a guy acting tough and threatening me with his "bruddahs". I may have stooped to his level but I dare say I staid a few steps above. "Gay" is not a bad word, and certain things or occurences might seem "gay" because they are or seem to be such. Whether or not the listener finds this remark offensive depends on whether HE is homophobic or not. There are other words that are "homophobic" and hurtful, gay is certainly not one of them. If you can convince me it is, I will admit so. And we can hug and make up. Or would that be too... much?

Um, if you're referring to me, as Leo can attest, I am NOT gay (although I do have lots of gay and lesbian friends)! and I am not (at least not since the last time I looked) a guy, either. Thhhhbt.

Miulang

[sinjin]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Crap.

Sums up your contributions nicely.

You made a good point.

Gee thanks white man.

I am sorry if it sounded like I was passing a cosmic law.

I'm sorry you speak like you're entitled to.

I think I have humbled myself enough in my previous posts.

Enough for what? You must really think you're something special.

I was basically chatting, splashing around carefree, then I got attacked by sharks.

That's the funny thing with ethnocentrism, chum.

However unimpressed you (or others) might have been with me, this was not the way to lead a discussion.

Apparently your newfound humility doesn't prevent you from continuing to tell others how to communicate. Btw no one was discussing anything with you. They were patient enough to school you but you prefered to claim to know better.

[PoiBoy]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

----edited-----

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Sinjin gets MVP for this thread!

And if I had the viscious webby skillz of Aunty Lynn, there would be a sparkly gif of applause.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

If you can convince me it is, I will admit so.

When a room is suddenly plunged into darkness, you may fiddle with the bulb, check the lamp, the switches, the socket; but once you realize that the power has been utterly lost, you cannot cajole the illumination into returning.

[Marco]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Just my two cents, but everyone piling on reineke and alienating him from this board seems pretty counterproductive.

I think he realizes his interpretation of "Hawaiian" was wrong, and was trying to back out of it with a little pride intact. Nothing wrong with that, as far as I can tell. No need to completely break the guy down.

[reineke]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

Sinjin gets brownie points for cutting up my posts and taking things out of context. Extra points for everyone going into a diatribe about my "typical" conus ignorance without engaging in any sort of discussion. I am about as typically "conus" as a Turkish yogurt maker. I am painfully familiar with being wronged, for generations, based solely on ethnic reasons. I have given two definitions, from credible sources, regarding usage. The books say what they say. I wasn't being schooled, or debated but hushed up through increasingly unpleasant personal remarks. I regret letting it get the better of me. I certainly took a few remarks too seriously but they just kept piling! I am willing to admit my mistakes and learn. I will also not be pushed around. The two definitions complement each other and look logical. I can easily live with both or just one, some people obviously can't. Being who I am and what I am I can accept others calling themselves whatever they want -even with the name of my own ethnicity. I know I would get beaten up for it, badly, - or agreed with - by my own people. And I am as violently nationalistic and proud of my heritage as one can be -without being an ignorant git or a criminal. My view is that if you respect and love my country and feel proud to call yourself by MY name I'll be happy to accept you as a brother. I wanted to expand on that as someone mentioned it and it is an issue in my neck of the woods but I never got to it as I was too busy defending myself. If my posts were worthless, and I had absolutely nothing to contribute, this was a very silly way of showing it. Sinjin, you dwell too much on me personally and what I think of myself. I agree with a few of your points to me and to others, you certainly don't have to agree with mine. If anyone cares to explain things to me I am willing to listen. If not, that's ok too. Marco, thanks for the helping hand, I truly appreciate it but I hold my ground. I apologize for hijacking the thread.

[Kahalu'u Kid]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

I never said "shouldn't be called haole". I said "I myself" would not call them haole.

Look, a haole will always be a haole. I thought I cleared that up in my previous post.

I also never said "a haole that understands Hawaiian culture shouldn't be called haole". In my opinion, a haole can never understand true Hawaiian culture. Just as a so called "local" can never understand true Hawaiian culture.

A haole is a haole and always will be a haole.

My bad PoiBoy. My paraphrasing skills aren't so good ... you're right, you never said that. And that's the last thing I have to say regarding this thread. Aloha.

[Keith H.]

Re: Racial divide and schools?

I apologize for hijacking the thread.

Hey, don't worry, misunderstandings happen. Hawaiian in the sense of "resident" rankles my ear, but at least you didn't refer to the Mainland/CONUS as "the States." That's an even grosser sin in my book.

As for your argument, I personally thought it had merit: it does come from two well-respected sources that govern writing nationwide. But I still think that the AP Stylebook, which is the de facto annually-updated bible of the U.S. writing industry that says how those words can be acceptably used (and which now, thanks in part to Michelle Wie, says "Hawaiian" should be used only for the ethnic group...see my post above), trumps any dictionary.

Dunno if that will satisfy you or others, but I think that's as close to an authoritative endorsement of island usage of Hawaiian as you're gonna get.