small newspapers

[craigwatanabe]

Re: small newspapers

A lot of the Star-Bulletin's top talent started off at the newspaper as "college kids" or at least graduates fresh out of college. That includes writers, photographers and editors.

Some of them are management today.

And some of them are the ones the Advertiser hired away from the Bulletin.

There is a management technique some businesses encorporate by weeding out the deadwood from the rank and files...they promote them.

But you said the key two words...started out. You eventually attain some level of perfection in your abilities. As a college student this is your starting point and as such the race has already begun with the front runners having the superior credentials and are two laps ahead as opposed to the college student that has just left the blocks.

I'm impressed that the Star Bulletin would give an aspiring journalist the tools and the opportunity to work in a commercial publication as I believe that experience is invaluable and will make for an impressive resume when applying for the Honolulu Advertiser (as it seems is happening from the posts above).

Don't get me wrong I have nothing against SB or who they hire. But in a college newspaper where you don't get the experienced journalists, you cannot compare it to either SB or HA. SB may have college students but they are working with proven professionals not college peers who know only as much.

College Newspapers are a great place to test one's ideas but there is no room in a commercial publication to "see if it will work". SB and HA have to remain in a strictly business attitude and make every column space useful and valuable. No room for mistakes here.

[buzz1941]

Re: small newspapers

Here's another irony -- my degree is in photojournalism (University of Missouri). So naturally, the paper has me working as a writer.

My second degree program, BTW, was in forensic anthropology. No call for that at the paper either.

Actually, many of the best journalists have no degrees at all or in other fields. The two biggest knuckleheads I've ever worked with had masters degrees.

[dick]

Re: small newspapers

Give Dick a few more hours... he'll probably post his response after 2 a.m.

Sorry to ruin your fantasies, but this site isn't really a top priority in my life. But since I seem to be so popular, I thought I'd stop in before 2 to say "hi."

Funny how since I blew the lid off the "S-B hires students" scandal we're suddenly a second-rate paper deserving of contemplation before purchase.

But whatever.

It might also shock some to know that a number of people working at the S-B don't have degrees in journalism. Now how terrifying is that? Geez, makes me shudder to think that I have a B.A. in Japanese language, and photo and journalism were things I was doing on the side while in college.

[buzz1941]

Re: small newspapers

Just in case this hasn't sunk in, the Advertiser's newsroom budget is somewhat larger than the Star-Bulletin's.

Now that I think about it, I'm one of the local kids who was hired locally by the Star-Bulletin, just after college.

[Composite 2992]

Re: small newspapers

A lot of the Star-Bulletin's top talent started off at the newspaper as "college kids" or at least graduates fresh out of college. That includes writers, photographers and editors.

Some of them are management today.

And some of them are the ones the Advertiser hired away from the Bulletin.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: small newspapers

Well, that's quite a blanket statement.

Some of the kids we've had here who were students at the time -- ranging from Mary Vorsino to Robbie Dingeman -- are among the most "solid" journalists I've ever met. That they were hired away by a bigger and very competitive paper is pretty much all you need to know about their abilities.

As for hiring eager, talented and local journalism students as opposed to fussy, top-dollar Mainland professionals who are near retirement, I think I know how I'd spend my money.

Yes it is a blanket statement but if you read my earlier post I did say this, "
There are exceptions such as those who have a knack for researching and writing. There are also those who go back to college to formalize their journalistic experiences."

[Palolo Joe]

Re: small newspapers

As for hiring eager, talented and local journalism students as opposed to fussy, top-dollar Mainland professionals who are near retirement, I think I know how I'd spend my money.

It's a good thing you're not the boss.

The Advertiser has the budget to hire the top names in this town. If the Star-Bulletin is hiring green college kids while the Advertiser is cherry-picking their top talent from under their nose... well, again that says something in itself.

Give Dick a few more hours... he'll probably post his response after 2 a.m.

[buzz1941]

Re: small newspapers

You cannot be a solid journalist when you are still a student.

Well, that's quite a blanket statement.

Some of the kids we've had here who were students at the time -- ranging from Mary Vorsino to Robbie Dingeman -- are among the most "solid" journalists I've ever met. That they were hired away by a bigger and very competitive paper is pretty much all you need to know about their abilities.

As for hiring eager, talented and local journalism students as opposed to fussy, top-dollar Mainland professionals who are near retirement, I think I know how I'd spend my money.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: small newspapers

The silence is deafening.

[Palolo Joe]

Re: small newspapers

Hell, the SB has had several staffers who were UH students while working for us. So, since they were "college students" what they did for us was not to be taken seriously? And, ultimately, the SB can't be taken seriously? What, so you think we're some kind of a joke paper?

Well, if the Star-Bulletin is going around hiring college kids instead of experienced journalists, that does say SOMETHING about the quality of the paper.

It's all about the experience level. I would rather read something by a reporter who had years of experience covering their beat, than some college kid writing about the virtues of prostate stimulation.

But hey, if you're proud of having inexperienced staffers, good for you. That's something I'll definitely think about the next time I'm standing in front of the racks with my quarters.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: small newspapers

Oh and for students' ideas and experiences are a good thing and for that I feel that belongs in a college newspaper because it relative. But also remember their ideas are subjective material and so are their interpretations of their experiences.

News cannot take on a subjective slant. Doing so makes it an editorial opinion and that is not news, it's more of a news columnists point of view.

And I didn't say all people who work in newspapers are biased by others in the media. But how many journalists ever take on their subject fully? How many are great researchers and how many are out there in the element that they are writing about?

How many use Google and a telephone to get their stories instead of actually going there? And then how many simply rewrite what comes off the wire service?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: small newspapers

Most college writers as you say eventually go on to some literary discipline as you indicated. It's there is when they perfect what they went to college to learn. It becomes their profession. You cannot be a solid journalist when you are still a student.

There are exceptions such as those who have a knack for researching and writing. There are also those who go back to college to formalize their journalistic experiences.

But for the most part, students of college newspapers are still in the learning phase of their journalistic aspirations and for that is why I feel college work cannot be taken as seriously as professionally published material from people who have been in the business and have already received their academic credentials from notable journalism schools.

You simply cannot put undergrad students in the same professional level as seasoned journalists.

And I will apologize for that remark about school lunch menus. That was a low blow. College newspapers do serve a purpose and they are not a joke however you cannot compare professional publications such as SB and HA that encorporate MANY professionals as opposed to college newspapers that encorporate MANY students.

I'm glad you have UH students at SB. From this experience they can relate better to their degree and will be some of the better journalists. But that happens in time, and unfortunately not for all on board on most college newspapers.

Remember college newspapers is where aspiring journalists hone their skills to become professionals. In the two daily rags when you are hired you are expected to be one already and the differences are in the published material. If Ka Leo was that good SB wouldn't keep those students as their association with Ka Leo would be a conflict of interest. It's not because the caliber of journalism is not on the same plane.

High horse? It depends on your observational perspective I guess. I look it as the stark reality of life.

[dick]

Re: small newspapers

If the newspaper can carry it's own weight in value then it will succeed. If you want to be an editor/reporter of a college newspaper that blasts the local rags, then be advised when it comes to local job hunting you may find yourself reading the classifieds of the same rags you blasted.

Ka Leo is a good college rag but maybe it should stick to college issues like the daily lunch menu.

It can be intriguing but quite honestly if I want to read the news I don't know if I want to read it from the perspective of a college student that hasn't seen the real world yet to develop my own understanding of things around me.

Newspapers need only report the facts, no editorials from the editor that reveal any slant on news publications. Let the reader decide.

How many reporters have actually gone to Iraq before writing their "piece". How many have ever left the confines of their own cubicle to report on world events as it relates to Hawaii? As a student of UH what influences their writing? The Media? Or their own personal experiences?

As a 13-year old I thought I knew more than any elementary school kid. As a senior in High School I thought I knew more than my parents!

When I travelled the world I realized I didn't know crap because the media never showed "that" side of reality.

So how can a college newspaper tell me about life when it's coming from a student that hasn't lived it to it's fullest yet? Insight maybe but not facts as presented on the world's stage. Like telling of a great concert experience, you just had to be there to get the full impact.

So, people who write for newspapers are only influenced by other members of the media? Students' ideas and experiences aren't important? How do you reach this idea?

Most of the staff at the two "major dailies" came from Ka Leo, or other Hawaii college papers. Hell, the SB has had several staffers who were UH students while working for us. So, since they were "college students" what they did for us was not to be taken seriously? And, ultimately, the SB can't be taken seriously? What, so you think we're some kind of a joke paper?

So, adults attending college aren't worth anything more than "the daily lunch menu"? How do you know the "college writer" hasn't been to more places than your so-called worldly self have been?

Get off your high horse.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: small newspapers

How about UH Press?

If UH students are picking up a daily to find out UH news, they're better off with Ka Leo. And vice-versa. Frankly, the kids should be reading all three papers.

If the newspaper can carry it's own weight in value then it will succeed. If you want to be an editor/reporter of a college newspaper that blasts the local rags, then be advised when it comes to local job hunting you may find yourself reading the classifieds of the same rags you blasted.

Ka Leo is a good college rag but maybe it should stick to college issues like the daily lunch menu.

It can be intriguing but quite honestly if I want to read the news I don't know if I want to read it from the perspective of a college student that hasn't seen the real world yet to develop my own understanding of things around me.

Newspapers need only report the facts, no editorials from the editor that reveal any slant on news publications. Let the reader decide.

How many reporters have actually gone to Iraq before writing their "piece". How many have ever left the confines of their own cubicle to report on world events as it relates to Hawaii? As a student of UH what influences their writing? The Media? Or their own personal experiences?

As a 13-year old I thought I knew more than any elementary school kid. As a senior in High School I thought I knew more than my parents!

When I travelled the world I realized I didn't know crap because the media never showed "that" side of reality.

So how can a college newspaper tell me about life when it's coming from a student that hasn't lived it to it's fullest yet? Insight maybe but not facts as presented on the world's stage. Like telling of a great concert experience, you just had to be there to get the full impact.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: small newspapers

Frankly, the kids should be reading all three papers.

Print editions, or on-line?