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  • #61
    Re: small newspapers

    Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
    Thank you for making my point for me. The Honolulu Advertiser and the Honolulu Star-Bulletin are both maliciously affecting Ka Leo’s ability to attract ad revenue ala go! Airlines “outspend them ‘til they go broke” style.Again, why are the commercial dailies being allowed to compete with a non-profit student newspaper at a state-run school?
    Interesting that you think I'm making your point when you're not seeing mine.
    Aloha from Lavagal

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    • #62
      Re: small newspapers

      Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
      Again, why are the commercial dailies being allowed to compete with a non-profit student newspaper at a state-run school?
      Would a ban of distributing free copies of the 2 major dailies be an infringement on their first amendment rights? I would think the first amendment applies equally to both large commercial newspapers as well as the small publisher.
      I'm still here. Are you?

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      • #63
        Re: small newspapers

        Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
        Again, why are the commercial dailies being allowed to compete with a non-profit student newspaper at a state-run school?
        Uh, usually it's the other way around - it's prohibited for state subsidized entities from competing against private enterprise. I'm not 100% that would apply to Ka Leo, but if I were a student, I wouldn't be happy about money extorted from me being used to battle private enterprise.

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        • #64
          Re: small newspapers

          Originally posted by mel View Post
          Would a ban of distributing free copies of the 2 major dailies be an infringement on their first amendment rights?
          I doubt it. First Amendment rights would apply to the content of the paper, not the means of disseminating it.

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          • #65
            Re: small newspapers

            Does it really matter? If students want to read a real newspaper, they'll pick up one of the dailies.

            If they want to see fellow students trying to act like real journalists, they'll pick up a copy of Ka Leo. As PZ has noted, it's more like a newsletter now than a wanna-be newspaper.

            Anyone else see the commentary about prostate massage in a recent issue of Ka Leo? Pathetic.

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            • #66
              Re: small newspapers

              Originally posted by Palolo Joe View Post
              Anyone else see the commentary about prostate massage in a recent issue of Ka Leo?
              Is that what they are calling it now?

              pax

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              • #67
                Re: small newspapers

                Originally posted by GeckoGeek View Post
                it's prohibited for state subsidized entities from competing against private enterprise.
                How about UH Press?

                If UH students are picking up a daily to find out UH news, they're better off with Ka Leo. And vice-versa. Frankly, the kids should be reading all three papers.
                Burl Burlingame
                "Art is never finished, only abandoned." -- Leonardo Da Vinci
                honoluluagonizer.com

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                • #68
                  Re: small newspapers

                  Originally posted by buzz1941 View Post
                  How about UH Press?
                  Good question. I do know that government subsidized "business" have guidelines they need to follow on what they can and can't do. I don't know what UH Press follows.

                  Originally posted by buzz1941 View Post
                  If UH students are picking up a daily to find out UH news, they're better off with Ka Leo. And vice-versa.
                  Originally posted by buzz1941 View Post
                  Frankly, the kids should be reading all three papers.
                  Well, at least Ka Leo and one daily.

                  Yeah, well, reading two dailies - I'll add that to my list of things like changing the smoke detector battery each year, annual refrigerator coil cleaning, bi annual automotive coolant change, etc, etc.

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                  • #69
                    Re: small newspapers

                    Originally posted by buzz1941 View Post
                    Frankly, the kids should be reading all three papers.
                    Print editions, or on-line?

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                    • #70
                      Re: small newspapers

                      Originally posted by buzz1941 View Post
                      How about UH Press?

                      If UH students are picking up a daily to find out UH news, they're better off with Ka Leo. And vice-versa. Frankly, the kids should be reading all three papers.
                      If the newspaper can carry it's own weight in value then it will succeed. If you want to be an editor/reporter of a college newspaper that blasts the local rags, then be advised when it comes to local job hunting you may find yourself reading the classifieds of the same rags you blasted.

                      Ka Leo is a good college rag but maybe it should stick to college issues like the daily lunch menu.

                      It can be intriguing but quite honestly if I want to read the news I don't know if I want to read it from the perspective of a college student that hasn't seen the real world yet to develop my own understanding of things around me.

                      Newspapers need only report the facts, no editorials from the editor that reveal any slant on news publications. Let the reader decide.

                      How many reporters have actually gone to Iraq before writing their "piece". How many have ever left the confines of their own cubicle to report on world events as it relates to Hawaii? As a student of UH what influences their writing? The Media? Or their own personal experiences?

                      As a 13-year old I thought I knew more than any elementary school kid. As a senior in High School I thought I knew more than my parents!

                      When I travelled the world I realized I didn't know crap because the media never showed "that" side of reality.

                      So how can a college newspaper tell me about life when it's coming from a student that hasn't lived it to it's fullest yet? Insight maybe but not facts as presented on the world's stage. Like telling of a great concert experience, you just had to be there to get the full impact.
                      Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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                      • #71
                        Re: small newspapers

                        Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
                        If the newspaper can carry it's own weight in value then it will succeed. If you want to be an editor/reporter of a college newspaper that blasts the local rags, then be advised when it comes to local job hunting you may find yourself reading the classifieds of the same rags you blasted.

                        Ka Leo is a good college rag but maybe it should stick to college issues like the daily lunch menu.

                        It can be intriguing but quite honestly if I want to read the news I don't know if I want to read it from the perspective of a college student that hasn't seen the real world yet to develop my own understanding of things around me.

                        Newspapers need only report the facts, no editorials from the editor that reveal any slant on news publications. Let the reader decide.

                        How many reporters have actually gone to Iraq before writing their "piece". How many have ever left the confines of their own cubicle to report on world events as it relates to Hawaii? As a student of UH what influences their writing? The Media? Or their own personal experiences?

                        As a 13-year old I thought I knew more than any elementary school kid. As a senior in High School I thought I knew more than my parents!

                        When I travelled the world I realized I didn't know crap because the media never showed "that" side of reality.

                        So how can a college newspaper tell me about life when it's coming from a student that hasn't lived it to it's fullest yet? Insight maybe but not facts as presented on the world's stage. Like telling of a great concert experience, you just had to be there to get the full impact.

                        So, people who write for newspapers are only influenced by other members of the media? Students' ideas and experiences aren't important? How do you reach this idea?

                        Most of the staff at the two "major dailies" came from Ka Leo, or other Hawaii college papers. Hell, the SB has had several staffers who were UH students while working for us. So, since they were "college students" what they did for us was not to be taken seriously? And, ultimately, the SB can't be taken seriously? What, so you think we're some kind of a joke paper?

                        So, adults attending college aren't worth anything more than "the daily lunch menu"? How do you know the "college writer" hasn't been to more places than your so-called worldly self have been?

                        Get off your high horse.

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                        • #72
                          Re: small newspapers

                          Most college writers as you say eventually go on to some literary discipline as you indicated. It's there is when they perfect what they went to college to learn. It becomes their profession. You cannot be a solid journalist when you are still a student.

                          There are exceptions such as those who have a knack for researching and writing. There are also those who go back to college to formalize their journalistic experiences.

                          But for the most part, students of college newspapers are still in the learning phase of their journalistic aspirations and for that is why I feel college work cannot be taken as seriously as professionally published material from people who have been in the business and have already received their academic credentials from notable journalism schools.

                          You simply cannot put undergrad students in the same professional level as seasoned journalists.

                          And I will apologize for that remark about school lunch menus. That was a low blow. College newspapers do serve a purpose and they are not a joke however you cannot compare professional publications such as SB and HA that encorporate MANY professionals as opposed to college newspapers that encorporate MANY students.

                          I'm glad you have UH students at SB. From this experience they can relate better to their degree and will be some of the better journalists. But that happens in time, and unfortunately not for all on board on most college newspapers.

                          Remember college newspapers is where aspiring journalists hone their skills to become professionals. In the two daily rags when you are hired you are expected to be one already and the differences are in the published material. If Ka Leo was that good SB wouldn't keep those students as their association with Ka Leo would be a conflict of interest. It's not because the caliber of journalism is not on the same plane.

                          High horse? It depends on your observational perspective I guess. I look it as the stark reality of life.
                          Last edited by craigwatanabe; January 20, 2007, 12:57 PM.
                          Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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                          • #73
                            Re: small newspapers

                            Oh and for students' ideas and experiences are a good thing and for that I feel that belongs in a college newspaper because it relative. But also remember their ideas are subjective material and so are their interpretations of their experiences.

                            News cannot take on a subjective slant. Doing so makes it an editorial opinion and that is not news, it's more of a news columnists point of view.

                            And I didn't say all people who work in newspapers are biased by others in the media. But how many journalists ever take on their subject fully? How many are great researchers and how many are out there in the element that they are writing about?

                            How many use Google and a telephone to get their stories instead of actually going there? And then how many simply rewrite what comes off the wire service?
                            Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: small newspapers

                              Originally posted by dick View Post
                              Hell, the SB has had several staffers who were UH students while working for us. So, since they were "college students" what they did for us was not to be taken seriously? And, ultimately, the SB can't be taken seriously? What, so you think we're some kind of a joke paper?
                              Well, if the Star-Bulletin is going around hiring college kids instead of experienced journalists, that does say SOMETHING about the quality of the paper.

                              It's all about the experience level. I would rather read something by a reporter who had years of experience covering their beat, than some college kid writing about the virtues of prostate stimulation.

                              But hey, if you're proud of having inexperienced staffers, good for you. That's something I'll definitely think about the next time I'm standing in front of the racks with my quarters.

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                              • #75
                                Re: small newspapers

                                The silence is deafening.
                                Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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