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  • #91
    Re: small newspapers

    I would assume that in order to work at Ka Leo you would have to be pursuing a degree in journalism. If SB is hiring former Ka Leo journalists and SB is also hiring journalists without a degree then one could surmise that some of those former Ka Leo journalists failed to complete their course work at UH. Or are these two seperate entities?

    It's been quite some time since I was a student at UH (25 years), but back then you didn't need to be pursuing a journalism degree to work at Ka Leo. Just demonstrated desire & ability. It's just a matter of mutual interest and the search for practical experience that journalism students would be the majority of individuals working at a college newspaper. As for the SB hiring many without degrees...I wouldn't say it was many anymore. Those employees are just still working there.

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    • #92
      Re: small newspapers

      Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
      I still find it amazing though that not having a professional degree in journalism will still open doors at a major newspaper in Hawaii. But like broadcasting, you don't need a degree in broadcast journalism either and make it in the news rooms.

      I wonder how those who struggled at UH to get their degrees in Journalism feel when they find out their peers got to the same point in their professional career without a degree.

      But then again if there are that many without a degree at SB yet so many that work there that have worked at Ka Leo, I don't get it.

      I would assume that in order to work at Ka Leo you would have to be pursuing a degree in journalism. If SB is hiring former Ka Leo journalists and SB is also hiring journalists without a degree then one could surmise that some of those former Ka Leo journalists failed to complete their course work at UH. Or are these two seperate entities?

      Eh?
      All the journalism degrees in the world won't help you if you don't have an internship or at least decent clips (and don't think that swill they do for class counts). So many of the people being churned out of the UH print J school don't bother to work at Ka Leo, so they don't get clips. They don't get clips and can't get internships. Then they all scratch their heads wondering why they can't get jobs. Because they all think that a J degree is some magical key to work in the real world.

      It's not.

      I worked at Ka Leo, and wasn't in the J program. I found news photo interesting and stuck with it. **And just so some don't think I'm "proud of my background," I'm telling this so people understand how it works in the real world** I shot my ass off doing stuff I wasn't even assigned to do. I knew I needed a good portfolio to get an internship, which I eventually landed at the Advertiser.

      Ka Leo and the J school are completely different entities. You don't have to be in the J school to work there, and you don't have to work there to be in J school. And it always surprises me when we have J school tours of the newsroom and I ask the students "how many of you work at Ka Leo?" Maybe a hand or two are raised out of 15 students. I laugh and tell them, "good luck finding a job."

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      • #93
        Re: small newspapers

        Okay I'll buy that.

        Comparing my experiences in radio, there are similarities. You can go as far as you want getting a broadcast journalism degree but if you don't do the gophering, you won't get far. Those that did the overnights and weekends paid their dues.

        I remember doing nights and weekends while studying between breaks, and when not at the station or in class, I was at Hamilton pounding the reference books and copying machines.
        Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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        • #94
          Re: small newspapers

          Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
          Comparing my experiences in radio, there are similarities. You can go as far as you want getting a broadcast journalism degree but if you don't do the gophering, you won't get far. Those that did the overnights and weekends paid their dues.
          I'll second that. I went to a midwestern community college to pursue an Associate of Arts degree in Broadcast Communications. The college had just launched a public radio station one year before I started, and I said "why don't you have any opportunities for students to do some work here?" They said, "Uh...we don't know...but you can be our first!"

          After a year as a work-study student, I was hired on full-time, based on the abilities I had shown and the grunt work I was willing to do (and I got really good with a razor blade, grease pencil and splice tape!) It took two more years to get the AA degree after that, which meant nothing compared to the work experience itself - which led to a 20-year professional radio career.

          (FWIW, I left the world of paid radio in 1995 for other music-related pursuits; I've done volunteer radio work since 2001.)

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          • #95
            Re: small newspapers

            Originally posted by Media Guy View Post
            I think the orginal point was that a college paper is a small newspaper and is not or should not be construed to be in direct competition with the local dailies, which are profit driven enterprises.
            And once again, this is an erroneous assumption. To reiterate, the Honolulu Advertiser and Honolulu Star-Bulletin have been dumping free copies of their newspaper on a daily basis - in the lobbies of the UH Mānoa dorms. (This in addition to newsstands around campus) Why don’t K-12 kids get this perk? How about needy non-profits? Senior citizens? Handicapped?

            No, the reason the commercial dailies are doing this is to directly compete with Ka Leo for advertising revenue, and undercut the student publication which relies on these ads to make ends meet. On an ideal basis, Media Guy, you would be correct. Unfortunately, that is not the reality.

            We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

            — U.S. President Bill Clinton
            USA TODAY, page 2A
            11 March 1993

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            • #96
              Re: small newspapers

              I could very well be way off base, but I find it hard to believe that either daily would care about the comparatively minuscule amount of advertising revenue Ka Leo generates.

              I think reason they "dump" copies at the UH dorms is to entice a potential subscriber market. These kids will be living out in the larger community in a short amount of time. Not to mention they also patronize the papers advertisers. They are members of the all important 20-45 age group, those thought to have the most discretionary income.

              It also can count in each papers associated demographics, and maybe more importantly towards their total circulation numbers.

              I'm not that up on these programs since they aren't really advertising related, but I know both dailies do distribute papers at intermediate & high schools. I know The Star Bulletin participates in the Newspapers in Education program (NIE). It's managed by Jefferson Finney.

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              • #97
                Re: small newspapers

                Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                And once again, this is an erroneous assumption. To reiterate, the Honolulu Advertiser and Honolulu Star-Bulletin have been dumping free copies of their newspaper on a daily basis - in the lobbies of the UH M?noa dorms. ... the reason the commercial dailies are doing this is to directly compete with Ka Leo for advertising revenue, and undercut the student publication which relies on these ads to make ends meet.
                Not exactly. It's about building "view" numbers, something the Advertiser started after the JOA divorce. Basically, the school pays the Advertiser a token amount for the paper and the Tiser's thousands of papers dumped there are then considered "paid" subscriptions. This was one of the fishy things that made their circulation figures within ABC suspect.

                BTW, most -- if not all -- of the SB staffers DO have degrees. They're just not in journalism. So what? A J degree is no guarantee the person has the oomph to do the job. Some people are simply born journalists. Robbie Dingeman, for example -- she's one of the best natural journalists out there, and that was apparent even when she a Kalaheo High student working after school at the Sun Press.
                Burl Burlingame
                "Art is never finished, only abandoned." -- Leonardo Da Vinci
                honoluluagonizer.com

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                • #98
                  Re: small newspapers

                  I know the SB delivers freebies to some of the elementary schools here on the Big Island as well. Serves as a useful tool in current events.

                  One question about Ka Leo...do they deliver? Do they put their print on newsstands anywhere other than on campus?

                  If not then I wouldn't consider them as competition as their circulation would be held to a captive base anyway.

                  But back to small newspapers...I used to deliver the Hawaii Times (Japanese paper) when I was a kid.
                  Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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