Would you move back to Hawaii?

[Miulang]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

The minute they get sovereignty you will see casinos going up all over Hawaii, just like the Native Americans did on the Mainland. It is all about money and greed.

What's wrong with Ndn casinos? And why shouldn't the kanaka maoli be able to do the same thing as their brethren on the Mainland? If the kanaka maoli were allowed to have their own casinos (which they can't, thanks to Congress), it would be a revenue stream that might allow them to become self-sufficient and not have to rely on the government as much as they have to now. And nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head forcing them to patronize these casinos. If people want to throw their money away, why not let some enterprising group of people "assist" them in the process?

Miulang

[LocoBoy]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

Whoa SRV, I'm sorry you feel the way you do about the Islands. I'm a local who's born and raised here and guess what, I have white skin and get called haole too but I never have and I'm sure I never will experience ther kinds of things you describe. Hawai'i is quite the opposite of what you've wrote. Your opinion seems to a reflection of some deeply rooted anger and you should consider seeking some spiritial guidance (IMHO).

[timkona]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

It's easy to make it in Hawaii. All you have to do is show up on time, and work hard, and be responsible, and you stand miles ahead of the crowd here.

The racism here is just a symptom of the level of ignorance. But you gotta realize that's the magic ingredient that makes it easier to survive and prosper here than, say San Francisco. In SF, half of everybody is a PhD, or a BS, or a some other acronym. Makes it harder to compete for a middle of the road fellow like me. Over here in Hawaii, I'm the shark in the minnow pond.

And sure, casinos might improve the lot of Hawaiians if they could have them like the Indians do. But I don't have a casino, and I seem to be doing all right.

Crutch arguments are so popular by folks who feel disenfranchised by the system. The source of the discontent is more likely found in the overall intelligence level of the complainer.

[pzarquon]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

I came to realize that Hawaii was the most racist state I have ever lived in. The Islands are beautiful but the people are ugly.

I don't doubt that you had unpleasant experiences, but to paint all of Hawaii's citizens with such a broad brush is pretty ridiculous, and the fact that you can make such pronouncements makes it pretty clear you weren't, or aren't now, the "inclusive and spiritual" person you claim to be.

Hawaii contains humans, and humans are largely the same wherever you go. So you'll find ignorance, and brilliance, and everything in between.

I would disagree with all the misty-eyed idealists who say Hawaii has no racism. That a "melting pot" means that all the flavors get along together. But I'd also disagree that we're excessively racist. We are race conscious, however, and probably deal with race issues more than some communities given the nature of our mix.

Largely what sets Hawaii apart from Mainland cities in the aggregate (and I'm not making specific pronouncements about any or all Mainland cities, mind you) is the minority status of Caucasians. If you come from a place where 90 percent of the population is "white," arriving in a place where you're not "like everyone else" can be a bit of an adjustment. Since there is racism here, even if it's mild, it can be a shock to be the target of any racist word or act for the first time.

Are some race issues "institutionalized"? Sure. The same way many Floridians make assumptions or hold stereotypes of Cubans, or Texans of Mexicans, people in Hawaii have their ideas about haoles... and Filipinos and Chinese and Vietnamese. You might even hear more of this stuff here than elsewhere. But again, some of what's called "racism" (negative words or acts based on race) is simply being more aware of, up front about, and affected by issues of race and culture and the mixing thereof.

I've always maintained that discrimination is based more on one's attitude than on the color of one's skin. If you have a chip on your shoulder or go looking for transgressions, I guarantee you'll find them. And yes, they do happen. How you manage them is what matters.

My best friend from small kid time is as haole as they come, but he's more "local" than I am. He got a few "f'in haole" remarks (usually as we biked around town), but he'd usually disarm folks pretty quickly with his command of pidgin. (I'm born and raised, and can't do pidgin convincingly.)

Plenty of people come from afar and find a home and a family here. My wife did, and I'm glad for that! I'm sure she's been subject to her share of stink eye and rude gestures and under-breath muttering. But the most persistant annoyance related to her race, I'd say, is getting "forked." That is, going with a group to an Asian restaurant and being the only person automatically given a fork instead of a chopstick. I don't mind, though, because we just trade.

This is what I think, anyway. I love Hawaii's people, and love living here. If you disagree, you're free to... it just means more Hawaii for me.

[Pongs]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

It's unfortunate that SRV experienced this kind of hostility but almost anywhere you go, racism will appear! If caucasians haven't lived in areas where they are the minority, perhaps this is why they are so taken back when they experience so-called "reverse discrimination".

In Hawaii, it may be whites being discriminated against because they are outnumbered. Growing up, I was always called chink by some ignorant black and white kids in my school. In the south, blacks may be the party discriminated against...

Why is it so surprising that racism is a REAL problem that exists EVERYWHERE no matter the race? No matter where you move to, you can't escape it, although it may be someone else who is being discrimated against in your new home.



abt soveriegnty, Unfortunately many Indian casinos don't even benefit the very people they were designed to. Instead, in many cases most of the money goes to big financial backers, or people who can back up weak claims of Indian ancestry, even creating their own tribes to do so! Talk about money and greed! Native Americans end up working minimum wage jobs while people with barely a drop of native blood are raking in the cash (...i've done research on this , not just pulling this out of my a**)

Kanaka maoli probably could do greatly if they were allowed to establish casinos only if history is not repeated and others are allowed to reap the benefits.

*****
I'm glad Makepagirl was able to overcome her experience to pass on such strength to her child!!!!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

I would disagree with all the misty-eyed idealists who say Hawaii has no racism. That a "melting pot" means that all the flavors get along together. But I'd also disagree that we're excessively racist. We are race conscious, however, and probably deal with race issues more than some communities given the nature of our mix.

Well-phrased. From what I can tell (as a Mainland haole with family in and connections to the Islands), Hawai`i is NOT a melting pot, and that pleases me. "Melting pot" has always (to me) implied everyone losing some of their identity and unique nature, eventually blending into the same thing.

Hawai`i seems to be more of a "mixed plate," where the cultures can remain distinct, but shared with each other. Everyone can adopt and adapt something from each other's offerings - which might even lead to more respect for each other than you find in a "melting pot" climate.

That's why Frank De Lima's humor doesn't work on the Mainland - unfortunately, more Mainlanders seem to have gone to Hawai`i and tried to impose their attitudes on Island ways - and they are the ones that have made Frank feel like he has to tone down his comedy, which is a damn shame.

Am I, as a haole, going to experience more race-based anger in Hawai`i than on the Mainland? Probably, because I'm a minority there AND "represent" a race that has a track record for oppressive dominance. In response, I can only get a thicker skin, do my best to understand where the anger comes from, and do my personal best to prove certain haole stereotypes wrong; and even that won't be enough for some people - if I can't live with that, then I will have no business being there.

I don't even have to wait to move there to experience it; I've gotten small doses from some of the folks in the Hawaiian community in the Seattle area, since I am so involved with Hawaiian music and cultural activities here. But the small doses have been far outweighed by the community that has accepted me, based on my behavior, respect and aloha.

[lurkah]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

I don't even have to wait to move there to experience it; I've gotten small doses from some of the folks in the Hawaiian community in the Seattle area, since I am so involved with Hawaiian music and cultural activities here.

Don't feel too bad. I'm a born and raised rubbah slippah-wearing blahlah from Hawai'i, and one of the first things I experienced when I met some of the more prominent Hawaiians in the Seattle area was the subtle yet condescending up-and-down look I got from a few of them. After getting over that initial shock, I remember thinking how funny it was that they think that they're so special all of a sudden. Back home in Hawai'i, they'd be nobodies, while up in the PNW some of them have come to enjoy a sort of minor celebrity status, like a legend in their own mind kind of thing. Whatever. Main thing is I know where I came from and I know what I know, and I sure don't need anybody else qualifying who I am. I won't disrespect anyone who doesn't do it to me first, and that goes for any human being of any color.

[Lei K]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

Eh Lurkah! I've ran into a few of those here myself. Those are the kind who would NOT move back home because of exactly what you said, they'd lose the legend in their own mind thing. Because back home you become part of the majority again and lose the novelty I suppose.

As long as you know who you are, that is all that counts. You certainly do not need someone's nod of approval.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

Main thing is I know where I came from and I know what I know, and I sure don't need anybody else qualifying who I am. I won't disrespect anyone who doesn't do it to me first, and that goes for any human being of any color.

The hardest time I had was when I discovered that a musician I had been working with for months was bad-mouthing me behind my back, with talk of "why do they let this f'in haole play our music?" That was tough to face, because I thought we had a good relationship through the music, which took it beyond the racial sphere. Other than that case - no boddah me.

Qualifying yourself for yourself is wise advice, lurkah.

[lurkah]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

Eh Lurkah! I've ran into a few of those here myself. Those are the kind who would NOT move back home because of exactly what you said, they'd lose the legend in their own mind thing. Because back home you become part of the majority again and lose the novelty I suppose.

As long as you know who you are, that is all that counts. You certainly do not need someone's nod of approval.

Amen to that, tita!

[lurkah]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

The hardest time I had was when I discovered that a musician I had been working with for months was bad-mouthing me behind my back, with talk of "why do they let this f'in haole play our music?" That was tough to face, because I thought we had a good relationship through the music, which took it beyond the racial sphere.

Two-faced back-stabbers like that exist no matter where you go. What goes around, comes around and he'll get his own *ss bitten down the road, I'm sure of it. Hopefully you were able to gain some musical knowledge during that time before that musician eventually showed his true colors so that you were able to move on and can now, "just press". Sharing the same stage with Dennis and David Kamakahi, Patrick Landeza, John Keawe, Cyril Pahinui et al the way you've done ain't too shabby in my book.

[haole_pupule]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

Since we are bitching about racism, I thought that I would weigh in. I currently live in Hawaii, and I have to agree that Hawaii is the most ignorant racist place I have ever lived. I surf and race canoes, which I did before I moved here, and I think that it is the only thing that really keeps me here. I don't know why anyone that is not into ocean sports would ever put themselves through this. I couldn't even imagine trying to raise a family here. It would cost you about 12K a year just to send your kids to a school where they would be treated fairly and not get beat up every day.

The aloha only lasts as long as your standard two week vacation package. In every club that I have paddled with since I moved here, the only people that ever call me to go do stuff outside of the standard race or paddling function are other haoles. I surf at Makaha all the time, and the last time I was out there Bruce gave me a bunch of crap about not introducing myself and asking if I could surf there before I paddled out just because I was white. Shortly after our encounter, an unknown Hawaiian guy paddled out and Bruce paddled over to him and said "Hi" and asked him his name all friendly like. I was a little pissed. I am sick of the judgemental looks that I get from everyone just because I am white.

Oh...by the way, just becasue you are part Korean or Japanese and might have a shade of skin a little closer to that of a Hawaiian does not make you a native.

One more thing...I am white and I have short hair...but for the love of God...I AM NOT IN THE MILITARY SO STOP ASKING!!!!!!!!!!

On a positive note, every Samoan I have met since I moved here has always greated me with a smile and treated me with nothing but respect. Samoan's are an awesome people.

[lurkah]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

On a positive note, every Samoan I have met since I moved here has always greated me with a smile and treated me with nothing but respect. Samoan's are an awesome people.

What they really want is to meet your sister. Just kidding, dude.

[haole_pupule]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

thats funny.

[LocoBoy]

Re: Would you move back to Hawaii?

by haole pupule

I have to agree that Hawaii is the most ignorant racist place I have ever lived.

Geez man where in the world are u coming from?? Where else have you lived and do you think they'll take you back, I sure hope so. You must be living in some secluded pocket in another dimension cause your views on Hawaii, its people and the aloha spirit are warped, big time.