What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

I really appreciate that this thread has been created to touch on one of my own near&dear topics, being the socio-economics, choices, and ownership on having a healthy and diverse enough economy so that people can stay in the place that they love with all their heart.

I graduated from high school in the mid-80s, right as the Japanese real estate bubble burst. When one buys her first condo, and experiences negative equity by a low-sum-albeit-5-digit figure, and cannot make her balloon payment that was due, (I won't bore you with the details of how lenders wouldn't cross that threshold, even though one can be thankful today that there are different lending options, but we are talking '93) there was a lesson there to be learned.

When one sees that the DOW in 1994 was 6000, and sees her fellow classmates living on the mainland (but now go by the trendy term "Gen-Xer") and seeing that they were working in new, exciting fields, getting paid well to create new industries and sub-industries, there was a lesson to be learned there, too.

Until Lingle became governor (not that she was the cause of this), I would say that I spent my entire adult life living in a bear market, not just "investing" in others' (you know, buy low sell high). I saw my mainland-peers talking about investing in bear markets, but I knew it was quite another thing entirely to grow up through and fully experience in one. I've thought about this for years, and it taught me to:

1)get a trade under my belt, because bartering my peanut butter for your chocolate will get me places as much as a college degree will (both are equally necessary).

2)Remember my algebra. The parabola, or the graph of x-squared is the math behind interest rates. I relearned (it wasn't this much fun when I was 13) why credit debt can kill, and why I needed retirement accounts, mutual funds and money market rainy day stashes. And on that note,

3) Learn what taxes mean and play the games God gives you (via his prophet Uncle Sam). Work those retirement accts, understand mortgage interest, appreciate the mana that a G.E. tax liscense offers and learn to use it prudently. Keep papers in order. Learn that 10 minutes a day of self-discipline will reap when it comes tax time.

But you know...

Not everyone has had good role models. Not everyone has had access to financial books (and those suckers are SO intimidating when you don't know what the terms mean). Some people have a language barrier to contend with. Some people have never had higher math, and are frustrated because they cannot conceptually grasp the consequences of their financial decisions.

Some people are stuck balancing two jobs + to make ends meet and by the time that they get home, their energies are needed elsewhere, that they don't have the time to Learn New Things™.

This is so much around us that it is a demographic which cannot be ignored. We have a large working class. We must learn to respect them, their--shucks, our--needs. Hawai'i needs to strike a balance between better tax credits for housing/rental issues and relief for small and mid-sized local businesses, particularly if such a credit was dependent upon doing business with other local businesses (so that it doesn't wind up in a holding account in New York or Germany).

And while I am deeply committed to a high personal ethic, my morals command me to balance that with grace and compassion and understanding for others who have a different lot in life. And to help as much as I can. And then help some more. Ho, da hard!

Again, thank you so much for bringing this up.

aloha, P

[TropicalTrumpet]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

If you are looking for an average on what salary would be considered acceptable, I think you are going to have a hard time. Each person is going to provide a different answer because it is really up to what the individual is willing to sacrifice to stay here. I think that a majority of people would agree that they have had to make some sort of sacrifice to stay in Hawaii.

Hi HaolePupule. Yes, I agree and assumed I would get different ideas concerning required salaries needed to stay in the islands. However, I was hoping to get a sense of what is needed from multiple responses. Unfortunately, I haven't received much of a response. And as you stated, most people have to sacrifice something to stay in Hawaii. With that kind of acknowledgement in mind, I was hoping for reasonable figures.

[haole_pupule]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

If you are looking for an average on what salary would be considered acceptable, I think you are going to have a hard time. Each person is going to provide a different answer because it is really up to what the individual is willing to sacrifice to stay here. I think that a majority of people would agree that they have had to make some sort of sacrifice to stay in Hawaii.

[anapuni808]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

Hey - I didn't say I was happy

to answer your questions:

63
1, grown & self supporting
no - never wanted to own a home. what for?
yes, i've travelled & had adventures
retirement? i'll work til I drop probably.

life isn't always perfect - but like I said, I have enough.

What we "need" is food, shelter, clothing. What we "want" is that safari in Africa. There is a big difference.

When one can learn to want what they need, life is much easier & less stressful.

and no, no one can tell anyone else how to live - one can only offer their own experience. How others interpret that in their own lives is up to them.

[sinjin]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

I've been reading this thread from the beginning. I guess I'm just puzzled - what is it that folks "want" or feel that they have to have to make life perfect for themselves?

I went from working a normal 40 hr per week job to working part time. I now work only average of 25 hrs per week & am paid an hourly wage - in other words, if I don't work I don't get paid. I don't get sick leave or paid holidays - that all comes out of my 10 days of annual vacation. It's hard but I make "enough" - enough to pay my rent, buy groceries, a bus pass, cable tv, cell phone and a few small extras. What am I missing here? Is there some ddefect in me somehow that I am supposed to have more? or that I "deserve" more? I have what I need. and I've learned to "want" what I need. Sure, I would like to have back the $50,000 I earned before coming back to Hawaii - it would even be nice to have the $32,000 I earned at a full time job - but, bottom line is: I have ENOUGH.

There is a wonderful book called "Your Money or Your Life" - too bad more folks don't read it. It gives you a totally different outlook on money and lifestyle.

It is well that you can be happy with little. A few questions though:

1. How old are you?

2. Do you have children?

3. Do you hope to ever own a home?

4. Have you seen much of the world?

5. What will you live on when you're too old to work?

"What you are missing" depends on you're interests. I promise you without adequate funds you are indeed missing things. Paris in Spring time, Carnivale in Rio, Rome, a chance to go on safari in Africa. Maybe you couldn't care less.

Please don't take this the wrong way but it is not for others to decide what I need, or what you need to make life full.

[anapuni808]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

I've been reading this thread from the beginning. I guess I'm just puzzled - what is it that folks "want" or feel that they have to have to make life perfect for themselves?

I went from working a normal 40 hr per week job to working part time. I now work only average of 25 hrs per week & am paid an hourly wage - in other words, if I don't work I don't get paid. I don't get sick leave or paid holidays - that all comes out of my 10 days of annual vacation. It's hard but I make "enough" - enough to pay my rent, buy groceries, a bus pass, cable tv, cell phone and a few small extras. What am I missing here? Is there some ddefect in me somehow that I am supposed to have more? or that I "deserve" more? I have what I need. and I've learned to "want" what I need. Sure, I would like to have back the $50,000 I earned before coming back to Hawaii - it would even be nice to have the $32,000 I earned at a full time job - but, bottom line is: I have ENOUGH.

There is a wonderful book called "Your Money or Your Life" - too bad more folks don't read it. It gives you a totally different outlook on money and lifestyle.

[TropicalTrumpet]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

I believe Tim mentioned the occupation of teaching. I know for a fact that each year, the Hawaii Department of Eduation sends reps to the mainland to recruit primarily special education teachers as well as a few other areas such as media specialists (library arts), etc. Most of the U.S. has a shortage of special education teachers, but this is at least one area I know of that Hawaii has a need for and there are not enough Hawaii residents graduating from college to fill the need.

I believe a first year teacher in Hawaii makes about 37K gross or so. I don't know if that is a sufficent salary for a single person to live in Hawaii, but if it is, this is at least one area that a local can go into.

I have written to Governor Lingle concerning my ideas about single family homes and land for Hawaii residents. At least I made an attempt to offer ideas. I sincerely hope someone will do more than just talk. I believe the escalating cost of homes should have been tempered a long time ago as well as home buying restrictions for non-residents. Now, because of lack of action, I believe drastic measures have got to be taken. . . NOW!

My best wishes to the residents of Hawaii.

[TropicalTrumpet]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

To answer your question, Trumpet: I don't know, but I'm glad someone is asking. I think every person of native Hawaiian ancestry deserves land. Short of that, there's no real fix. Susie's figure ($5000) is indeed a lot of money. That's presumably on top of one's salary. I think most people could rustle up enough for a down payment on a house after a couple of years on that.

Yes, I wish someone could come up with some kind of effective plan so that locals would not have to leave their island. Is the government addressing this problem at all? If so, what are they doing about it? My first idea may not have been feasible, but I believe my second one might be. That is, having a new law passed whereby only people who have been residents of Hawaii for at least five years and who do not already have a home could by a single family home or land. Of course, the realtors would scream about this, but I'm not concerned about them at all. I'm concerned about the hardworking, long time residents of Hawaii being able to buy an affordable home so they don't have to move to the mainland, assuming they don't want to, of course.

I'm certainly not trying to tell ANYBODY what to do. I don't have the answers, but things seem so bad concerning the cost of living, that I wish the residents of Hawaii would unite and demand the government address this extremely serious problem that is decaying Hawaii and work hard to come up with a reasonable solution to this problem that they have let get WAY out of control and is seriously hurting its own people. How's that for a run-on?

However, having said that, I believe everyone has to do their part. If in fact, many local residents do not have a college education, it seems to me that if Hawaii residents want hope for a brighter future, that will have to change. No matter where you go in the U.S., a person will be at a financial disadvantage without a college degree. I realize that won't help the persons who are on in years, but looking to the future, I believe there may be work to be done in that area.

But, short of allocating land for locals only to build on and "freezing" the sale of single family homes and land to local residents only, even if it's just for a couple of years, what else is going to stop this obscene cost of living/housing monster that is devastating the people of Hawaii? If you have ideas, I wish you would share them with the government of Hawaii.

[timkona]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

No local person will ever be able to afford to live in the condos going up on O'ahu now.

Simply NOT the truth. I know lots of people in Hawaii, who are from here, who have made a great life out of the cards they were dealt. Most of them had to abandon many of the defeatist values they were swamped with as a child. Kilinahe, you sound like you cling to some of the defeatism like a lifejacket in a bathtub.

I have an Aunt who graduated from college at the age of 42. She did that with 4 children, and two part time jobs. Now she teaches elementary school. And loves it.

Empowerment, utilizing your mind, body, and fierce willpower, is the secret. Anyone can do it. But those who choose excuse making are doomed to failure.

The high road is the most difficult. But the view is excellent once you arrive.

Kilinahe, I bet in the long run, you will succeed beyond your wildest dreams.

[Kilinahe]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

This isn't about kids, tim. This is about people already in lousy-paying jobs, who have been working for years, supporting their families. Does anybody in this thread sound like a high-schooler to you? No $10.00 hour hotel worker with grown kids and grandchildren is going to go back to school to become a veterinarian, no matter what kind of motivational speaker you think you are. You can choose two things: food, tuition, or outrageously high rent. What are you going to pick, Coach?

And besides your profession, whatever it is, what other "falsehoods" are in my post? I didn't say anything to the effect that affordable housing needs to be "houses". I said no such thing. Thing is, though, is we're kind of running out of room. I'm sick of seeing O'ahu carved up into bite sized chunks, just big enough for big, ugly condos. And I hate that it's coming to that on the Kona side. I can't speak for everyone, but I know I'm not alone. No local person will ever be able to afford to live in the condos going up on O'ahu now. More condos and more apartments are never going to solve the problem.

To answer your question, Trumpet: I don't know, but I'm glad someone is asking. I think every person of native Hawaiian ancestry deserves land. Short of that, there's no real fix. Susie's figure ($5000) is indeed a lot of money. That's presumably on top of one's salary. I think most people could rustle up enough for a down payment on a house after a couple of years on that.

[timkona]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

Nice of you to take the time out of your busy schedule to lecture us about job openings, Tim, but I think maybe you, the real estate developer, who is more than likely making money hand over fist, are the one in need of an education. None of those jobs that you so helpfully listed pay anywhere near enough to make ends meet. On any island. Especially a single person and definitely not a one-income family. In case you're living under a rock over there in Kona, there is no affordable housing here on O'ahu. Nothing. We're struggling to keep what we have open, but in the meantime, there are people living with fifteen relatives in houses designed for five. It's a nightmare over here, and guess what? It ain't gonna get any better on the big island. It's getting worse all the time.
Are those people in overcrowded houses lazy? Poorly educated? Yeah, I dare you to tell a multi-generational Filipino/Hawaiian family that they're too dumb to look at the want ads. I dare you.Typical

All the jobs I listed pay enough to make ends meet. That's why I listed them. Affordable housing doesn't need to be "houses". Condos and Apartments are much cheaper to build. I'm not a developer. Your post is full of misinformation and falsehoods.

How easy would it be if 15 relatives pitched in to get one kid to become a doctor, lawyer, professor, or somesuch?

I knew that if I used empowerment as bait, the negativists would come out in force. You too, Kilinahe, can be a wild success in your own life, and help others in your family to do the same.

And since I work with high school students in sports, I can honestly say that I HAVE said words to this effect to many up and coming young citizens. And 1 or 2 of them have actually listened.

In Hawaii, not enough people believe or preach - "YOU CAN DO IT!!"

[Kilinahe]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

Nice of you to take the time out of your busy schedule to lecture us about job openings, Tim, but I think maybe you, the real estate developer, who is more than likely making money hand over fist, are the one in need of an education. None of those jobs that you so helpfully listed pay anywhere near enough to make ends meet. On any island. Especially a single person and definitely not a one-income family. In case you're living under a rock over there in Kona, there is no affordable housing here on O'ahu. Nothing. We're struggling to keep what we have open, but in the meantime, there are people living with fifteen relatives in houses designed for five. It's a nightmare over here, and guess what? It ain't gonna get any better on the big island. It's getting worse all the time.

Are those people in overcrowded houses lazy? Poorly educated? Yeah, I dare you to tell a multi-generational Filipino/Hawaiian family that they're too dumb to look at the want ads. I dare you.

Typical.

[timkona]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

In Kona, there is one (1) ob/gyn. That would be a great career for a youngster to get into.
In Kona, there are no doctors who deliver babies by C-section anymore. That would be a great career for a youngster to get into.
In Kona, Veterinarians are scarce & expensive. And a furrier is near impossible.
In Kona, a licensed electrician (who knows what they are doing) is about $100/hour++.
An operator, with equipment, $175/hour. With 3 months waiting list.
In Kona, there are nearly 30 police officer openings.
In Kona, there are many, many teaching positions available.

If you are under the impression that it is tough to make a living in Hawaii, then you don't quite see the whole picture.

It is tough to make a living in Hawaii if you are scrambling at the bottom of the intelligence chain, or never got edumacated, or thought you were too cool for school. But the licensed, professional, vocational, educated, and motivated are sucking down gravy like Louis XVI.

And that's the greatest reason of all to do well in school, kiddies.

[kaneohegirl]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

$5000. a month is alot of money to spend each month...at least, for me! That is a fortune, that would last me about six months.

Will someone please break that down for me...I like see where it all goes.

hun when a
mortgage/rent can be anywhere from $900.00-2000.00 a month
car payment for a couple of cars$500-1000
insurance for both cars and hale$300-700
food
utilities
clothing
it adds up pretty quick

[SusieMisajon]

Re: What Would It Take For You To Stay Home?

$5000. a month is alot of money to spend each month...at least, for me! That is a fortune, that would last me about six months.

Will someone please break that down for me...I like see where it all goes.