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Korea may fire missile toward Hawai'i

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  • joshuatree
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missle toward Hawai'i

    Originally posted by musubi View Post
    [*]Because what N. Korea may want is recognition as an established nuclear power, like India or Pakistan;
    Interesting point, the international community did little to punish India or Pakistan when they went nuclear. Therefore, in NK's eyes, there is only one course and one to take, going nuclear.

    Leave a comment:


  • surlygirly
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missile toward Hawai'i

    Is it sad that I learn more about world news on HT than from anywhere else?

    I agree that Kim just wants to show his power. Hawaii is within striking distance, it happens to be US soil, which makes it an ever better F-U. I agree he's crazy. So in his mind...why not? Who cares if everyone else in the world gets caught in the middle.

    He who dies after proving he has the biggest nukes wins.

    Leave a comment:


  • Random
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missle toward Hawai'i

    Originally posted by musubi View Post
    I'll even sign a non-aggression pact with you if you want.
    Meh. Sometimes it helps to argue. Makes for a lively debate.

    Illin may crazy, but there are sane people in NK that agree with the test.

    Sadly, becoming a nuclear (super)power is part of the evolution of civilization

    --a Civ4 gamer.

    Leave a comment:


  • musubi
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missle toward Hawai'i

    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    Musubi, you don't seem to get the point.
    Whoa, sparky... easy on the petulance. I did get your point: that Hawaii is being targeted by N. Korea for political/strategic purposes solely because it is part of the USA.

    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    I am TRULY not attempting to pick a fight with you or try to make you wrong in your statement. and I won't respond if you try to make it into that.
    Good. Because I'm a lover, not a fighter.

    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    I hope you can go into a "what if" sort of mind set for a few minutes.
    As long as you stop implying that I'm not capable of going into a "what if" sort of mindset, I'm cool.

    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    I very sincerely believe that N. Korea has a political agenda/point to put forward here.
    Okay, I'm in the "what if" mindset...

    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    They don't believe that any other nation or entity should tell them what to do.
    We are in total agreement here.

    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    They are in a confrontation mode with the US - not Hawaii!
    My "what if" mindset says that it's more like N. Korea telling the entire world to f*ck off, which is a little larger playground than your N. Korea vs. U.S. mindset. My POV is that N. Korea's confrontation mode vs. the entire world would also include a sovereign nation of Hawaii as well.

    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    IF Hawaii were not part of the US, it is just an insignificant bunch of islands in the middle of the Pacific.
    Hawaii is a heavily populated archipelago, and home to a sizable Korean (mostly from S.Korea) population... those two facts make Hawaii not so insignificant, IMHO.

    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    Hawai would probably have signed a treaty of non-agression with N. Korea (and many other nations).
    Your POV, but it's speculation, of course. And what is to say that N. Korea wouldn't launch an attack even if a non-aggression treaty were in place? (See: Hitler-Stalin pact of 1939) But that's just my "what if" mindset talking.

    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    N. Korea would have nothing to gain in attacking Hawaii. No political purpose. and with that country - its all political.
    And you're entitled to that POV.

    As stated in my last post, my POV is that N. Korea is making a statement to the entire world. The statement is that it is flexing its nuclear "muscle" by launching a long-range missile TEST, not attack. Of course, by such a launch, N. Korea is IMPLYING that it has the will and ability to launch an attack to the West.

    Nothing to gain by launching in the direction of a sovereign Hawaii? Presumably a sovereign Hawaii would at least be "friendly" to the U.S... but even if the Hawaiian Nation were as neutral as Switzerland, N. Korea could still choose to conduct a long-range ballistic missile test in Hawaii's direction for one or more of the following political reasons:
    • Because it can (saber rattling can be a political statement in and of itself);
    • Because it looks impressive but won't actually hit anything;
    • Because what N. Korea may want is recognition as an established nuclear power, like India or Pakistan;
    • Because the the status and prestige of making N. Korea one of the world's established nuclear powers may be what Kim Jong Il wants as his legacy in the N. Korean history books;
    • Because N. Korea's nuclear weapons program could become a possible bargaining chip to garner greater international support for the current regime, or ensure regime transition to Kim Jong Il's son as successor;

    Then again, there is Kim Jong Il's mental state, which has been oft-debated. Some believe that "Dear Leader" may be in a state of psychotic dementia as a result of the strokes he may have suffered.

    So the "wild card theory" is: Crazy is as Crazy does.
    No politics involved in that one.

    I guess that's all I can think of for now.

    Just in case I didn't make it clear earlier, I "got" what you were trying to say. I hope you "got" what I was trying to say with this post, as well. Thanks for the opportunity to engage in civil dialog.

    I'll even sign a non-aggression pact with you if you want.
    Aloha and peace out...

    Leave a comment:


  • Random
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missle toward Hawai'i

    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    I very sincerely believe that N. Korea has a political agenda/point to put forward here. They don't believe that any other nation or entity should tell them what to do. They are in a confrontation mode with the US - not Hawaii!

    IF Hawaii were not part of the US, it is just an insignificant bunch of islands in the middle of the Pacific. Hawai would probably have signed a treaty of non-agression with N. Korea (and many other nations).
    Aww. Can't we just join them as member state just so we can get free Korean TV programming for ALL the islands of Hawaii?

    Besides, I'd rather have Kim over Obama. They know how to revere their presidents. Bah-HAHAHA!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Random
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missle toward Hawai'i

    Originally posted by matapule View Post
    Insanity and megalomania know no limits.
    Well, that's one statement we can agree upon.

    Of course, I'm the kind of guy that would egged such a criminally insane megalomaniac to act heinously. You know, slap him in the face to see if he like beef ... or pull out his gun under the trenchcoat.

    Trust me, you would not like me near you yelling, "You going kill us with that bomb? I like see you try."

    Sure, Kim Dumb Illin' may be a poser, but his military would commit heinous act to save face.

    Leave a comment:


  • anapuni808
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missle toward Hawai'i

    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    I wasn't really speaking of distance. I was speaking of the politics of the shot. What point would there be to aim at Hawaii? There would be no political or strategic value for N. Korea.
    Musubi, you don't seem to get the point. I am TRULY not attempting to pick a fight with you or try to make you wrong in your statement. and I won't respond if you try to make it into that. I hope you can go into a "what if" sort of mind set for a few minutes.

    I very sincerely believe that N. Korea has a political agenda/point to put forward here. They don't believe that any other nation or entity should tell them what to do. They are in a confrontation mode with the US - not Hawaii!

    IF Hawaii were not part of the US, it is just an insignificant bunch of islands in the middle of the Pacific. Hawai would probably have signed a treaty of non-agression with N. Korea (and many other nations).

    N. Korea would have nothing to gain in attacking Hawaii. No political purpose. and with that country - its all political.

    Leave a comment:


  • Walkoff Balk
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missle toward Hawai'i

    Originally posted by musubi View Post
    So he makes a statement (*Look at what I can do!*) , and at the same time, expects to avoid incurring anyone's real wrath.
    Is Kim Jong just being a poser? Is he the guy who says, "Hold me back, Hold me back" in a fight? He knows that there are people around that would stop a fight from happening.

    Leave a comment:


  • matapule
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missle toward Hawai'i

    Originally posted by AlohaKine View Post
    Kim would have to have a death wish to directly attack american soil.
    Insanity and megalomania know no limits.

    Leave a comment:


  • AlohaKine
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missle toward Hawai'i

    Originally posted by Random View Post
    Meh. I not worried.

    If we're blown off the face of the earth, then so be it.
    Kim would have to have a death wish to directly attack american soil.

    Leave a comment:


  • musubi
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missle toward Hawai'i

    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    I wasn't really speaking of distance. I was speaking of the politics of the shot. What point would there be to aim at Hawaii? There would be no political or strategic value for N. Korea.
    Even if Hawaii were not part of the U.S., I don't think N. Korea would "aim" at Alaska instead. Even though my comments were largely tongue-in-cheek, I think reasons #2 & #3 in my post are still rather valid reasons.

    So far, N. Korea's actions seem to be demonstrations of "muscle flexing." To that end, they would still probably aim any missile "long-range test" launch into the middle of the Pacific Ocean, rather than in any other direction.

    So even if Hawaii were not part of the U.S...
    ...It just so happens that we are still sitting in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

    Kind of like a sandbox bully heaving a rock as far as he can throw it, in order to show the other kids what he's capable of. The posturing certainly attracts more attention if the bully throws the rock in the direction of a neighbor's window...

    At the same time, the bully is also careful to make sure there is absolutely no chance of hitting said window.
    So he makes a statement (*Look at what I can do!*) , and at the same time, expects to avoid incurring anyone's real wrath.

    Leave a comment:


  • matapule
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missle toward Hawai'i

    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    What point would there be to aim at Hawaii? There would be no political or strategic value for N. Korea.
    I agree, the Pacific Fleet is a former shadow of itself as far as Hawai'i is concerned. However, Alaska is the source of a major domestic oil supply for the US.

    Kim Il is just BSing as far as Hawai'i is concerned.

    Leave a comment:


  • anapuni808
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missle toward Hawai'i

    Originally posted by musubi View Post
    A quick computer search gave these results for distance between two places:
    • North Korea to Hawaii = 4550 miles
    • North Korea to Alaska = 3563 miles

    Distance was given in direct mileage "as the crow flies."

    So Alaska is actually within the theoretical range capability of No. Korean ballistic missile technology.

    However, my guess is that they wouldn't target Alaska because:
    1. Which sounds more dramatic: targeting Alaska (meh) or targeting Hawaii?
    2. If they targeted Alaska and didn't score an actual hit on an in-range target, it would be a big loss of face;
    3. If they did score an actual hit on Alaska, they would be committing an overt act of war (to say the least) and would be inviting their own total annihilation;


    But the biggest reason they wouldn't target Alaska?
    Because Sarah Palin can't see it from her house!

    (BTW, I know I'm a little late with the Palin joke... you guys are way too fast for me!)
    I wasn't really speaking of distance. I was speaking of the politics of the shot. What point would there be to aim at Hawaii? There would be no political or strategic value for N. Korea.

    Leave a comment:


  • musubi
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missle toward Hawai'i

    Originally posted by anapuni808 View Post
    If Hawaii were not part of the US, then maybe they would aim for Alaska instead.
    A quick computer search gave these results for distance between two places:
    • North Korea to Hawaii = 4550 miles
    • North Korea to Alaska = 3563 miles

    Distance was given in direct mileage "as the crow flies."

    So Alaska is actually within the theoretical range capability of No. Korean ballistic missile technology.

    However, my guess is that they wouldn't target Alaska because:
    1. Which sounds more dramatic: targeting Alaska (meh) or targeting Hawaii?
    2. If they targeted Alaska and didn't score an actual hit on an in-range target, it would be a big loss of face;
    3. If they did score an actual hit on Alaska, they would be committing an overt act of war (to say the least) and would be inviting their own total annihilation;


    But the biggest reason they wouldn't target Alaska?
    Because Sarah Palin can't see it (N. Korea) from her house!

    (BTW, I know I'm a little late with the Palin joke... you guys are way too fast for me!)
    Last edited by musubi; June 19, 2009, 03:27 PM. Reason: clarification of punchline: "it" = N. Korea

    Leave a comment:


  • anapuni808
    replied
    Re: Korea may fire missle toward Hawai'i

    Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
    I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.


    you guys are making me laugh!

    Leave a comment:

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