The Iraq War - Chapter 2

[Miulang]

Representatives of the Bush Administration have got to be nuts. They are now suggesting to the Iraqi Election Board that if too few Sunnis cast votes next month, that the Iraqi government should try to balance out the counts so that the election results more fairly represent the percentages of Sunnis and Shiites in that country, the implication being that we don't want the Shiites to win. Hmmmmm...in America, wouldn't that be called vote tampering? The Iraqis, mercifully, are a little more philosophical about the whole thing. They believe whoever has the most votes, wins. Waitaminute! Does the Iraqi Constitution establish an electoral college, too?

Geez.

Miulang

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...aq_election_dc

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War

If there are still Americans out there who think that the war in Iraq is NOT about oil and our ability to get our hands on it, please read below:

http://www.ipsnews.net/new_nota.asp?idnews=26796

Miulang

[Kalihiboy]

Re: The Iraq War

From Yahoo News: "Opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko on Monday celebrated his apparently decisive triumph in the re-run of Ukraine's fraud-filled presidential election, thanking the protesters who spent weeks camped out in the capital's frigid streets for securing his electoral victory and the nation's freedom."

They should stage a re-election in the United States as well, I'm sure if they did it would show Bush has lost everytime.

Just like the shirt says, "Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kerry".

KalihiBoy

[kimo55]

Re: The Iraq War

Just like the shirt says, "Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Kerry".

KalihiBoy

that generic slogan is too shopworn and ubiquitous to have any pointed effect or meaning any longer.
IF... kerry had won, of course, we woulda had bumber stickers and t shirts saying the opposite. with equal effect.



(I see a bumper sticker now and then sez:
"Don't blame me, I vote for Lingle"...

what daaah!?

ok, so I blame you... because you voted for Lingle....)

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War

More confirmation that the Bush Administration is determined to interfere in the January 30 elections in Iraq. They are claiming that they don't want to tamper with the results, just "ensure that there is some representation of the Sunni population" by reserving a few key government positions for the Sunnis. All this after the main body of Sunni clerics has issued a boycott of the elections.

And our troops are fighting over there for what???! And they're going to be stationed and fighting over there for how much longer???

Miulang

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...379911,00.html

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War

If there are still Americans out there who think that the war in Iraq is NOT about oil and our ability to get our hands on it, please read below:

http://www.ipsnews.net/new_nota.asp?idnews=26796

Miulang

History will show that the US interest in Iraq and the Middle East is not about stopping terrorism, but the control of the oil resources of that region. The thinking is, if we don't get control over the oil, China will. And China already is working closely with Russia, which has the 2nd largest supply of oil reserves.

Miulang

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle7555.htm

[Kalihiboy]

Re: The Iraq War

that generic slogan is too shopworn and ubiquitous to have any pointed effect or meaning any longer.
IF... kerry had won, of course, we woulda had bumber stickers and t shirts saying the opposite. with equal effect.

(I see a bumper sticker now and then sez:
"Don't blame me, I vote for Lingle"...

what daaah!?

ok, so I blame you... because you voted for Lingle....)

We have a difference of opinion. I wear the shirt with pride because I didnt favor his lame tax cuts, his stupid war in Iraq, etc. I have nothing but
disrespect and utter disdain for this moron of a President. I am embarrassed to be an American for what he has done which is lose the respect of the world which we once used to have, he never admits a mistake even when he fires some of his own cabinet members, and thinks the current pace in Iraq is the right way to go!? Is he smoking crack again or what?

I didnt vote for this garbage, so dont blame me. At least with Kerry changes could have been made in domestic and foreign policies. But a election can never be won in the United States as long as the GOP controls the machines we vote on.

I can bitch all I want about this President because I didnt vote for him either time. So if anyone who failed to vote or regrets voting for Bush, dont blame me, I voted for Gore and Kerry, who won both elections as far as I'm concerned.

For the record I didnt vote for Lingle either and I'd like to see a single accomplishment the lady has made in 2 years. She ran on a "time for CHANGE" platform that struck a chord with voters, but I'm sure she wont be using the same platform again.

KalihiBoy

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War

Support our troops by bringing them home and sparing them anymore harm in this war that we cannot win!

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle7558.htm

Miulang

[Karen]

Re: The Iraq War

Hi Miulang!

You speak over & over about oil, as if it isn't a grave concern! You think the Iraq war is about oil? I see wisdom in this war being about MULTIPLE things. We got saddam, his two maniacal sons are dead, and Iraq is voting, something we hold dear, and they apparently see how delicious it is to choose your own leader, too.

I think we killed more than two birds with one stone, by marching into Iraq. Christmas morning, my first phone call was from about 20 minutes outside of Baghdad, from a soldier that is more than proud to be there. I know two people there, both about to rotate home, and they say the Iraqis are damn glad we got saddam, and only wish he were dead with his sons, but back to OIL.

Miulang, you do know we don't have enough oil under our own soil to serve our gluttonous needs for long, don't you? Do you understand that those that hate us happen to own most of the oil, and they hate us for much bigger reasons than what we are doing there, now, and they have hated us for many more years than the first Iraq war, and they know they, if they all got together and crippled/choked off our oil supply, could cripple our country! I see this, do you?

Miulang, do you like driving your vehicles? do you appreciate the electricity that gives you internet, etc? Is it nice, if you are in the chilly Pacific Northwest, to be able to heat your home? Do you understand how DEPENDENT we are on oil?!! Wanna live without it? Do you see that our country must keep the flow of oil going to us, and the rest of the world? Hell, we PAY for it, and do have a right to make sure it keeps flowing, since WE turn around and not only use the oil for our needs, but we produce and share with the world.

Miulang, why is it bad if part of the reason for the war IS oil? You surely won't try to deny that there are other reasons for the war, even if oil is one! There is not one country that we BUY oil from that has not benefitted from us in other ways than selling us oil.

You try to make Bush look bad by speaking of this war being about oil, and I say your argument is a foolish and even childish one. Nuttin wrong if this war is about oil, too. It clearly is not JUST about oil, but you sit and seriously envision YOUR Life suffering under a true oil shortage, and I mean mos. of severe lack, and tell me that you don't think we have a right to fight for the free flow of oil.

Good for us if we fought for oil at the same time we fought FOR the Iraqis. The majority of Iraqis are GLAD we freed them from saddam. I hear that FROM Iraqis, one of them living right here on Oahu, and saying soon as it's stable there, he is returning to live in Iraq, back with his loved ones that are there, and he spoke very nicely about this Iraq war that you speak against.

Bring our troops home right now?! You haven't thought this through, have you? Not one of them was drafted, and most of them are not cursing the fact they are there. THEY KNOW what you apparently do not.

Support our troops by bringing them home and sparing them anymore harm in this war that we cannot win!

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle7558.htm

Miulang

[Kalihiboy]

Re: The Iraq War

I realize you didnt write this piece to me, but since its a public forum I read it and I'll respond.

First off the American dependency on oil is ridiculous, your absolutely right it would cripple this country in so many ways it isnt funny. Our airlines, our cars, the right to travel, shop and work would be crippled. Glad I dont drive and I am fortunate to work at home. Isnt American Capitalism something to be so proud of it makes us all greedy and dependent on things, sounds like a drug addiction if you ask me.

You gloat over this war as its a justifiable thing because you spoke to a few troops stationed there as well as some Iraqi's. I'm sure one could find many stories that are positive, but have you asked any of the estimated 100,000 plus family members of those that died in this war how they think its all worth it? Is it any better if these same people suffered poverty, death and dangerous conditions under Sadaam's regime, yet they have to suffer the same fate under US occupation? Or was it really that bad under Sadaam and not just another form of American propaganda showing its finest rear for everyone to see.

One must understand that the United States has forced this country into their current predicament. We have told them they must live like us and have a free democratic election which I find a farce given the last two elections we have had in this country. Who are we to police the nation and tell others what to do?

The unemployment line has risen to great lengths since US occupation began nearly 2 years ago. But wait, we have created jobs called the Iraqi police force, but didnt they have a similiar force under Sadaam? People have been without electricity for months because the US soldiers or friendly fire on our part or the simple case of defending their own country in turn knocked out power lines to homes nationwide. I'm sure they all appreciate that.

Over 50% recently polled in the United States no longer support this sham of a war. Bush's approval ratings are at the worst of any recently elected President. But we're stuck with this moron for at least another 4 years because I'm certain he'll either want to change the constitution and allow himself to run again or endorse a Manchurian Candidate clone of himself.

You have yet to convince me of one single thing this war was worth not only fighting for, but losing a limb or a life over. I dont get it. I dont get this President nor do I understand this nation for allowing this crap to continue for another at least 4 years.

KalihiBoy

[Linkmeister]

Re: The Iraq War

You try to make Bush look bad by speaking of this war being about oil, and I say your argument is a foolish and even childish one. Nuttin wrong if this war is about oil, too. It clearly is not JUST about oil, but you sit and seriously envision YOUR Life suffering under a true oil shortage, and I mean mos. of severe lack, and tell me that you don't think we have a right to fight for the free flow of oil.

Fine bit of rationalization there. So might makes right? We want/need oil, so we should go take it?

Hmm. Saddam made a similar argument when he invaded Kuwait in August of 1990, and we fought a war to throw him out.

Sorry, Karen. Doesn't wash.

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War

Hi Miulang!

Miulang, do you like driving your vehicles? do you appreciate the electricity that gives you internet, etc? Is it nice, if you are in the chilly Pacific Northwest, to be able to heat your home? Do you understand how DEPENDENT we are on oil?!! Wanna live without it? Do you see that our country must keep the flow of oil going to us, and the rest of the world? Hell, we PAY for it, and do have a right to make sure it keeps flowing, since WE turn around and not only use the oil for our needs, but we produce and share with the world.

Karen, you're going to believe what you want to believe. I believe the troops volunteered to be in Iraq, but I also bet that if they had their druthers, they'd rather be back here in the States, with their families. I bet they would rather not be staring death in the face every single day. What the popular press reports is not what's really going on. As time goes on, even the Bush Administration is having to admit that "gee, maybe we underestimated what it would take to win this war." We will have to be in Iraq for another 5-8 years, even after the bogus elections next month, according to Pentagon estimates. The more we keep meddling, the less the Iraqis will like us and the more the insurgents will have their way. Do you know what's happening in Saudi Arabia? After bin Laden sent out his last videotape and told his followers to start blowing things up in Saudi Arabia, within a few days, the bombings started there, too. If it had not been for the coalition and the war, bin Laden and al Zarqawi would have been mortal enemies. Now they have coalesced into a much larger, more powerful invisible enemy.

Oh yeah, and about oil...you, of all people should know about the economics of oil because you lived in Texas. The people up here in the Pacific NW don't rely on oil for electricity. Ours is mostly hydroelectric, which is a renewable, sustainable energy source. We meddle in the Ukraine elections, which pisses off Putin and the Russians who hold the second largest oil reserves. You would think that the Administration would want to stay on good terms with that government, since they could supply us with oil, wouldn't you? Well the Chinese, who are consuming more and more of the world's oil, are on the hunt, too. They are working closely now with the Russian government on oil projects. The Russian government has within the last couple of weeks nationalized Yukos, which is the largest oil refinery in Russia (the US had been running the plant for years), which means probably that China will get most of the Russian oil. So where does that leave us? Either fighting for oil in the Middle East or drilling for oil in ANWAR, which would damage the environment forever.

I definitely support our troops, and want them home. If the terrorists had landed on our shores and were fighting us here on our own land, I personally would pick up a rifle and join the battle. Nothing is being accomplished by our being in Iraq right now. We have to admit that we are no longer the world power we used to be and act accordingly. Our dollar, once considered the monetary standard is nothing compared to the Euro; this is partly due to the Administration's putting us into trillions of dollars of debt. The people who are going to benefit from this are the Europeans, who will find it cheaper to come visit, which I suppose is a good thing in a way.

Anyway, I support our troops but I don't support the leadership that put them in harm's way.

Miulang

P.S. One good thing the military is doing is the Pacific Fleet command has sent the USS Abraham Lincoln and its battle group to SE Asia to help with the tsunami assistance. This is a good use of the military because it is for humanitarian reasons.

[Miulang]

Re: The Iraq War - Chapter 2

If the stats below are an indication that our side is "winning", I sure as hell have to shudder at the thought of what the toll would be if we were "losing" the war. I think the Iraqi civilians, like the majority of non-Zionist Israelis, just WANT TO BE LEFT ALONE. They are now being intimidated by the Islamic jihadists into not voting next month. And we, on the other hand, have instructed our troops to kill indiscriminately because we can't differentiate between a friend and a foe. So who will win this battle of intimidation?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...iraq_us_troops

Miulang

[Karen]

Re: The Iraq War

Karen, you're going to believe what you want to believe. I believe the troops volunteered to be in Iraq, but I also bet that if they had their druthers, they'd rather be back here in the States, with their families. I bet they would rather not be staring death in the face every single day. What the popular press reports is not what's really going on. As time goes on, even the Bush Administration is having to admit that "gee, maybe we underestimated what it would take to win this war." We will have to be in Iraq for another 5-8 years, even after the bogus elections next month, according to Pentagon estimates. The more we keep meddling, the less the Iraqis will like us and the more the insurgents will have their way. Do you know what's happening in Saudi Arabia? After bin Laden sent out his last videotape and told his followers to start blowing things up in Saudi Arabia, within a few days, the bombings started there, too. If it had not been for the coalition and the war, bin Laden and al Zarqawi would have been mortal enemies. Now they have coalesced into a much larger, more powerful invisible enemy.

Happy New year, Miulang,

of course if the troops had their druthers, they'd be safely home! they would prefer that the job they trained for is never needed, but they are not cursing the war itself, and they report that the majority of Iraqis bless their presence there. THIS matters hugely, as it proves we did a good thing in unseating saddam, and in killing his two freak, maniacal sons.

yes, I am aware that bin laden told his followers to bomb oil interests in Saudi Arabia. He did this because he wants to harm the flow to us here in the west. He'd love to cripple our way of life.

No Miulang, by growing up in Texas, that doesn't mean I know that you don't use oil to heat your homes, as a great number of Americans do. You use it alright, you depend upon transportation, and many of the things you are blessed by need oil to exist, etc. You know what I mean, and my point remains valid.

As I said, you can't prove otherwise cuz what I posted is so, and that is that if the flow of oil to us is crippled, YOU will suffer with the rest of us, and what is good for our country is good for the world, as we do for the whole darn world. Hurt us and many more than us are hurt.

GOOD has been accomplished in Iraq, and if it was also, simultaneously to keep madman saddam from choking our oil supply, GOOD! killed more than one bird with our proverbial stones.

Fine bit of rationalization there. So might makes right? We want/need oil, so we should go take it?

Hmm. Saddam made a similar argument when he invaded Kuwait in August of 1990, and we fought a war to throw him out.

Sorry, Karen. Doesn't wash.

Hi Linkmeister!

We do not "take" oil! We purchase it, at premium prices, and we have every right to make sure that flow keeps flowing to us, and in so blesses the world. Did we fight for oil? Did we fight "JUST" for oil? hell no...and as I keep saying, if we "killed two birds with one stone," HURRAH for us. A win win situation, what was good for Iraq was also good for us. No sin in this. some try to make it so, but it, as you say, doesn't wash.

No, saddam did not make a "similar" argument. He has all the oil he needs, and that is why his country can afford to sell so much to others. He marched for other reasons, so as you say Linkmeister, your argument doesn't wash. Also, saddam didn't march towards Kuwait to free anyone, nor for his country to be supplied with oil. What a pitiful comparison. You tried and you failed.

[Kalihiboy]

Re: The Iraq War

Karen,

It is you who has tried and failed to prove your point.

The fact you preach oil as if its holy water and its the reason and worth killing our American troops over makes you so damn insensitive that it isnt funny.

Its too bad you didnt receive compassion and a heart for Christmas. You just toe the GOP company line supporting a lame war and President and feel proud in doing so.

We just dropped our two cousins off at the Airport who are headed to final training in Texas, New Mexico and Lousiana for a 18month tour of duty in Iraq. I spared them the details of your post as I'm embarrassed to admit that there are actually people out there who stake more pride in oil than they do human life.

Just as President Bush says "stay the course in Iraq", keep supporting this disgrace of a war because it somehow makes you feel all proud and patriotic.

I mean even Hitler had supporters.

KalihiBoy