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  • The 2010 Elections

    Frankly I am full of fear about the coming election. As a Democrat I am aware that the in-power party almost always loses seats in the first election after a Presidential election, but this one is especially scary for a couple of reasons. One, the Republican Party has done a mighty fine job of purging itself of reasonable reach-across-the-aisle moderates and is down to a core of...well...right wing nut cases, like the Birthers, like the Tea Party people (funded by right wing lunatic Koch) who liken President Obama to Adolf Hitler for his attempt to solve the country's disasterous health care system. So odds are, whoever the Republicans nominate for various offices are going to be nut cases who appeal to the nut case base. Delusion is no way to run a government, its a formula for disaster. Two, the public (quite reasonably) does not like gridlock in Congress. Yet very obviously, without question, that is the Republicans' policy: say NO to everything, block everything. More of that is what a Republican vote means. It reminds me of the 1968 election when the public had finally seen thru the BS of the Vietnam War and wanted peace but voted for Nixon because Republicans succeeded in demonizing the peace side as pro commie long hair dope smoking welfare hippies. It worked, but the country got thousands more pointless, completely avoidable deaths. It is Republican policies of deregulating Wall Street that brought the economy to the brink of collapse. Yet thats what the public will be voting for this November, if polls are correct. Just the oil well blowout in the Gulf pretty much proves that environmentalists were not crazy, after all; it was the Drill Baby Drill crowd that was nuts, but thats who the public will seemingly be giving even more power to. And what if nut cases actually do insist on starting a war with Iran? Sorry for starting your day off so gloomily. Happy happy joy joy.

  • #2
    Re: The 2010 Elections

    K, I could take issue with some of your details, but that is beside the point. The fact is that "conservative" extremists have the spotlight right now and their message apparently resonates with a significant number of people. That's what a democracy is all about......warts and all. It is a reflection of the sentiment of a significant number of people in America. Only time will tell what happens in the 2010 elections, but whatever happens, each one of us has to decide how comfortable they are living in that environment - liberal or consevative or in between.

    I moved to Mexico 4 years ago. The only state I would feel comfortable living in is Hawai'i.
    Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

    People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The 2010 Elections

      Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
      the Republican Party has done a mighty fine job of purging itself of reasonable reach-across-the-aisle moderates and is down to a core of...well...right wing nut cases, like the Birthers, like the Tea Party people (funded by right wing lunatic Koch) who liken President Obama to Adolf Hitler for his attempt to solve the country's disasterous health care system... And what if nut cases actually do insist on starting a war with Iran?
      First of all, to characterize the Tea Party people as nutcases is to completely disrespect what makes it such a popular movement in the first place. Maybe one of their financiers is a lunatic in your mind, but he is but one tiny voice in a massive tidal wave of American taxpayers nationwide who are simply fed up with the tax-and-spend liberals running our government today. Literally hundreds of thousands of people make up this movement, and by the next Presidential election, they will number in the millions.

      Your oversimplified characterization of Koch’s objection to “President Obama’s attempt to revamp our health care system” clearly demonstrates you failed to even read the bill. The bill doesn’t create a single-payer system, and instead forces everyone to buy health insurance. At the same time, it showers insurance companies with money and tax breaks in order to finance the burden of covering all these new clients. Even worse, hundreds of million$$$ in the bill are appropriated for pet projects (a.k.a. BRIBES) to get senators and congressmen (who otherwise opposed the legislation) to vote for the bill. But the most damaging part of this bill, is the chilling effect it will have on government control over our lives.

      So before you write off those of us who are concerned about the skyrocketing national debt and deficit — the same kind that has brought Greece to its knees, only on a much more massive scale — as nutcases, please realize that we are now the majority, and that instead of dismissing us, perhaps you should try to justify why the U.S.A. is better off because of the policies of Obama, his administration, and the Democratically-controlled U.S. Senate and Congress. Guantanamo Bay is still open, hundreds of thousands of soldiers are still in Iraq and Afghanistan, and one of the main thugs involved in creating our global financial crisis is now Secretary of the Treasury. What else could possibly go wrong?

      We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

      — U.S. President Bill Clinton
      USA TODAY, page 2A
      11 March 1993

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The 2010 Elections

        Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
        a massive tidal wave of American taxpayers nationwide who are simply fed up with the tax-and-spend liberals running our government today.
        Now wait just a guldurn minute! Let's be "fair and balanced!" Taxes are down under Obama compared to W for 97% of taxpayers. 47% of taxpayers pay no Federal Income Tax. The majority of Federal taxes go to the big three, - military, SocSec, and Medicare. Which of those programs would you have the President cut? Ever since Reagan, the Republicans have been the party of "spend and put it on the national credit card." Ever since 1982 our national debt has gone up, with the exception of the Clinton years when the budget was balanced and the national debt went down. I expect and will accept nothing less from Obama but he has 2 1/2 years left to pull it off.
        Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

        People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The 2010 Elections

          It concerns me that you are "full of fear" about these elections. Fear is the weapon of choice in so much of the dirty rhetoric that fuels propaganda, and the media eats it up like crazy because it gets people's attention. Don't be afraid. The system is largely designed (as Matapule so succinctly puts it) to withstand the extremes. Without extremes, the middle forgets where it is (says this lonely libertarian). With them, most level-headed voters get a better idea of where they stand in relation to others.

          There are checks and balances for a reason. Even if there is a dramatic loss of seats in the Congress for the Democrats, I'd say there's just about no way the Dems lose the Senate. If somehow the Republicans take the House, then we actually have a Capitol Hill that works (sorta) how it was designed. I will agree that the current Republican leadership seems more interested in stonewalling the President than in legislating according to the people's interests, but I have to believe that this will not work in the long run, even if it works in the short-term.

          Tunnl, as usual, presents a reasonable, intelligent way of looking at the conservative base. To dismiss those in another party as nut-jobs is about as constructive as some of the fear-mongering and stone-walling you decry. Rather than be afraid, I think it's much more useful to try to understand what it is about the Tea Partiers that that appeals to regular voters like you and me.
          But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
          GrouchyTeacher.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The 2010 Elections

            Well, we could always kill the Republicans and make a one-party government system. I'm sure China would appeal to that as we merge into one superpower (China-America).
            Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

            Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The 2010 Elections

              As I have always said:
              The two-party system is a disaster looking for something (someones {us}) to destroy.
              Having 'two sides' to an issue inevitably results in conflict.

              We really need more people to get off their comfortable party pillows and start supporting popular issues. The only reason we don't have a third party is that the contenders won't agree to consolidate. Libertarians (the largest third party contender) could join (with some concessions) to the greens and perhaps some others to make a formidable third party.

              Then instead of conflict we can have chaos!

              And out of chaos will come order.
              All our lives we have known nothing but the Republicrats vs. the Demoncans (unless you are VERY old!). The first hundred years of our country knew many more parties, and at times more than two at a time.

              The two current major parties split out of the Democratic-Republican Party (1792–c.1824), so even they are only two sides of one viewpoint. We are actually functioning with two end pieces of one party.

              Check out all the political parties we have had! Pay particular attention to how many historical parties have been in power.

              At one time we actually had real choices.

              K\/
              Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
              ~ ~
              Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
              Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
              Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The 2010 Elections

                Originally posted by Random View Post
                Well, we could always kill the Republicans
                Why? They are doing a pretty good job of that themselves!

                Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                The only reason we don't have a third party is that the contenders won't agree to consolidate. ........And out of chaos will come order.
                You mean like what just happened in Great Britain?
                Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

                People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The 2010 Elections

                  Randi Rhodes had an interesting take on the Republican Party purging its own moderate wing--she said nominating Tea Party nut cases would actually be good for Democrats because they--the nut cases--would be so extreme they would be unelectable.

                  I was a Republican as a kid, from a family of moderate Republicans. There is no way I could ever picture Dwight Eisenhower or Everett Dirksen or any other of thousands of Republicans name calling, calling President Obama another Hitler, or blocking every piece of legislation, every nomination, regardless of the effect on the country. How did the Republican Party ever go insane? More to the point, why? Was it the nonsense on talk radio?
                  And why even tolerate incompetent boobs like GWB and Sarah Palin--idiots you wouldn't trust to administer your retirement funds.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The 2010 Elections

                    Originally posted by matapule View Post
                    The majority of Federal taxes go to the big three, - military, SocSec, and Medicare. Which of those programs would you have the President cut?
                    Both Iraq and Afghanistan are needless wars that should end immediately. Obama has waffled once on the date we withdraw from Iraq once. We’ll see if come August, he does it again.

                    Originally posted by matapule View Post
                    Ever since 1982 our national debt has gone up, with the exception of the Clinton years when the budget was balanced and the national debt went down. I expect and will accept nothing less from Obama but he has 2 1/2 years left to pull it off.
                    So President Clinton did a good thing, but if you have been following 808shooter’s thread then you know that Bill Clinton’s move was obviously canceled out by his own repeal of the Glass-Steagal Act.

                    Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
                    Randi Rhodes had an interesting take on the Republican Party purging its own moderate wing--she said nominating Tea Party nut cases would actually be good for Democrats because they--the nut cases--would be so extreme they would be unelectable.
                    Again, this is the type of name-calling scare-tactics that idiots like Rhodes use in a desperate attempt to influence public opinion. You still haven’t explained what makes the Tea Party movement as a whole “nutty.” It’s probably the sanest thing to happen to American politics in decades. It means Americans are finally holding their government accountable for irresponsible financial policy.

                    Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
                    I was a Republican as a kid, from a family of moderate Republicans. There is no way I could ever picture Dwight Eisenhower or Everett Dirksen or any other of thousands of Republicans name calling ... why even tolerate incompetent boobs like GWB and Sarah Palin
                    Dwight Eisenhower was one of the smartest guys around, but even he pissed off the neocons (that’s the Bilderburg Group, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the Trilateral Commission for the uninitiated). He’s one in a long line of presidents who warned the American people that the banking cartel’s primary customer — the military industrial complex — was taking over the country.

                    George Dubya Bush on the other hand, is who most ignorant Americans considered “moderate.” At least, Dubya did a brilliant job marketing to the American public that he was a moderate (thanks to Karl Rove). But just like his dad, GWB was a two-bit neocon. What about Barack Obama, who painted himself as a moderate Democrat? Matapule isn’t ready to brand Obama as a neocon yet, but I am. Obama’s entire administration is made up of neocons (Larry Summers, Timothy Geitner, Zbigniew Brzezinski, etc.). Regardless, if GWB is what 21st century has to sell us as moderates, I’ll take extreme conservative/ libertarian (Ron Paul), thank you. At least I know where he stands when it really counts.

                    We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                    — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                    USA TODAY, page 2A
                    11 March 1993

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The 2010 Elections

                      It is totally reasonable to want the government to act in a financially responsible manner. Yet to even bring that up while mr. bush was starting his Iraq War while simultaneously cutting taxes for the wealthiest among us was denounced as coddling terrorists; one might as well have been funding Al Qaeda as to have questioned the war or its financing on credit. Wall Street was seriously deregulated. Dick Armey slipped an amendment into a last minute funding bill that actually made it impossible for regulators to even look at the books of Wall Street traders, and then when the economy collapsed because of Wall Street recklessness he called Americans who had lost their jobs and or their life savings because of it "whiners". That is the kind of elitist arrogance that brings down empires. Make no mistake, getting out of the economic disaster that mr. bush and Republicans created was always going to be expensive. The time to complain would have been when mr. bush and Mr. Armey created the problem, not when President Obama was trying to fix it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The 2010 Elections

                        Originally posted by Kalalau View Post
                        Randi Rhodes had an interesting take on the Republican Party purging its own moderate wing--she said nominating Tea Party nut cases would actually be good for Democrats because they--the nut cases--would be so extreme they would be unelectable.
                        Rhodes is right. During an election year where the political climate should be favoring the GOP, it's the extremists in the party (Tea Baggers, Birthers, and what have you) who are their own worst enemies.

                        The way for a party to win major elections is to have candidates with "big tent" appeal. But getting in the way of that goal are the extremists, who are so determined to bounce out anyone in the GOP who doesn't toe the line. These are the folks who have been derided as being RINOs (Republican In Name Only), even if they have the appeal and the charisma to be embraced by the mainstream.

                        Some cases in point to show how exclusionary the right-wingers have become:

                        1) Florida Governor Charlie Crist - Once thought to possibly be a running mate for John McCain in '08. He later fell out of favor with many in the party after supporting Obama's stimulus plan. His support within the GOP base had dropped so low that he decided to run for the US Senate this year as an independent.

                        2) Massachusetts Senator Scott Brown - Less than a week after his historic election, many in the Tea Party became disenchanted with Brown when he joined four other GOP senators in blocking a filibuster that would have derailed Obama's jobs bill.

                        3) Former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin (???) - Yep, even Ms. You-Betcha has been derided by some in the Tea Party for endorsing Carly Fiorina to be the GOP challenger to California Senator Barbara Boxer. Apparently, the former CEO for H-P isn't conservative enough and the Tea Baggers continue their staunch backing of Chuck DeVore, even though this guy is currently polling a weak third among GOP hopefuls. Even should DeVore pull off a monumental upset in the primary, he wouldn't stand a chance at beating Boxer in the general election.

                        Say what you want about the right-wing extremists. They make a lot of noise over the talk-radio airwaves and on FOX news. But major elections aren't won with the party base alone. You've got to win over and connect with the mainstream. And the likes of the Birthers and Tea Baggers have a long way to go in accomplishing that feat.
                        Last edited by Frankie's Market; May 11, 2010, 10:27 PM.
                        This post may contain an opinion that may conflict with your opinion. Do not take it personal. Polite discussion of difference of opinion is welcome.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The 2010 Elections

                          Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                          Rhodes is right. During an election year where the political climate should be favoring the GOP, it's the extremists in the party (Tea Baggers, Birthers, and what have you) who are their own worst enemies.
                          Uhhhh...no. Your own post conflicts with this conclusion:

                          Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                          1) Florida Governor Charlie Crist - Once thought to possibly be a running mate for John McCain in '08. He later fell out of favor with many in the party after supporting Obama's stimulus plan. His support within the GOP base had dropped so low that he decided to run for the US Senate this year as an independent.
                          This is an example of how the group you call “extremist” have succeeded wildly! Crist is further proof that “mainstream” is no longer a term that describes the majority, and is basically a relic of Frankie and “mainstream” media. GOP base = tea party. Crist will be lucky to squeeze out a half-percentage win over Marco Rubio — you guessed it — a tea party activist, currently leading in the polls.

                          Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
                          2) Massachusetts Senator Scott Brown - Less than a week after his historic election, many in the Tea Party became disenchanted with Brown.
                          Haha! So what? The point is Brown got in as a result of tea party support, and the group now wields a powerful and dominant influence over national politics. Did you not read your own article?

                          the likes of the Birthers and Tea Baggers have a long way to go in accomplishing that feat.
                          Again, like Kalalau in a desperate attempt to connect two separate and unrelated movements in order to unfairly and inaccurately lump them into a “fringe group,” you put forth a completely unsupported statement. Scott Brown is tea party success #1, Charles Djou will be #2, and Marco Rubio will be #3. And let’s not forget the Utah race. Now if we can just get them all to switch parties to “Libertarian” (which basically embodies many if not most Tea Party values) we just might begin to reclaim D.C.

                          I know you’re a bleeding heart-liberal, Frankie, but please. Try to leave the name-calling (yes I am offended at the obscene “tea-bagger” reference) and come to the table with more than just hollow accusations.

                          We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                          — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                          USA TODAY, page 2A
                          11 March 1993

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The 2010 Elections

                            Originally posted by matapule View Post
                            Why? They are doing a pretty good job of that themselves!
                            I'm not talking about character assassination, I mean put them down.
                            Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                            Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The 2010 Elections

                              Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
                              Both Iraq and Afghanistan are needless wars that should end immediately. Obama has waffled once on the date we withdraw from Iraq once. We’ll see if come August, he does it again.
                              And yet there are some testimonies that our involvement is a good thing.

                              So this whole "we can make a difference in the world" is just pure BS, whether some are in it for ulterior motive.

                              We pull out, they go back to square one until one tyrant's party win.

                              I mean, we couldn't solve our own gang problem plaguing public housing projects, and yet we send civilian humanitarian workers to Africa now plagued by different religious zealot warlords warring each other yet rich enough to bring the poor people to their sides, the same poor people who returned the favor by becoming soldiers or suicide bombers themselves.

                              I VOTE FOR TOTAL ISOLATIONISM AND STOP FIXING THE WORLD!!!!!
                              Last edited by Random; May 12, 2010, 02:20 AM.
                              Beijing 8-08-08 to 8-24-08

                              Tiananmen Square 4-15-89 to 6-04-89

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