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  • #16
    Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

    Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
    "Strict gun laws will only create a bloodbath by making citizens powerless to defend themselves from criminals. When will people like matapule learn that the majority of those who commit crimes with guns obtained their weapon illegally in the first place? New laws will have no effect - except to make law-abiding citizens more vulnerable."
    Thanks TuNnl! Facts based on truth.
    Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Police shoot innocents at Empire State Building

      The most gun-controlled places in the USA are also the most violent. Or have you not been listening? Obviously, you have not. Did you ignore the valid statistics I posted?

      Well here they are again!

      Matapule claims the US is the industrialized nation with the most violence?

      BS, an an open-faced lie.

      Murder rates
      USA 4.2

      Other industrialized nations:
      Brazil 21
      Russia 10.2
      Venezuela 45.1

      Many other pre-industrialized nations have rates well exceeding those.
      India has more actual intentional deaths than any country in the world, and they, too are an industrialized nation.
      Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
      ~ ~
      Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
      Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
      Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

        Strict industrialization control now?
        https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

          Originally posted by TuNnL View Post
          Well said, Ron. Strict gun laws will only create a bloodbath by making citizens powerless to defend themselves from criminals.
          Is that an opinion or fact based on substantiated research? If so provide a link (other than the NRA).

          When will people like matapule learn that the majority of those who commit crimes with guns obtained their weapon illegally in the first place?
          Link?

          New laws will have no effect - except to make law-abiding citizens more vulnerable. Duh!
          Link?
          Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

          People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

            There are more than 129,817 federally licensed firearms dealers in the United States, according to the latest Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives numbers (as of Aug. 1) . Of those, 51,438 are retail gun stores, 7,356 are pawn shops and 61,562 are collectors, with the balance of the licenses belonging mostly to manufacturers and importers of firearms and destructive devices.

            For comparison, here are some numbers of other ubiquitous elements of American life:

            * Gas Stations in the U.S. (2011): 143,839 (source TD LINX/Nielsen via National Associations of Convenience Stores, Association for Convenience for Convenience and Fuel Retailing)
            * Grocery Stores in the U.S. (2011) 36,569 (source: Food Marketing Institute)
            * McDonald’s restaurants in the U.S. (2011): 14,098 (Source: McDonald’s Corporation Annual Report 2011)

            But unlike burgers, gas and groceries, firearms are not a perishable or consumable product. They don’t go away. A rifle used in the 2009 Holocaust Museum shooting was nearly 100 years old, but was still an effective murder weapon.

            According to ATF reports, in 2010 there were 5,459,240 new firearms manufactured in the United States, nearly all (95 percent) for the U.S. market. An additional 3,252,404 firearms were imported to the United States.

            Right now if you don’t have a criminal record and you have not been adjudicated as mentally incompetent, you can buy guns. In 2010 the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) ran 16,454,951 background checks for firearms purchases. Only a small number of these purchases (78,211 or 0.48 percent) were denied.

            Since 1998 there have been more than 151 million NICS checks. Each check doesn’t necessarily represent a single gun, just a single transaction. If one were to purchase two guns at one time, there would only be one check.

            Violent crime rates have been falling in recent years, but the number of people killed by firearms in the United States remains high. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, between 2006 and 2010 47,856 people were murdered in the U.S. by firearms, more than twice as many as were killed by all other means combined.
            Peace, Love, and Local Grindz

            People who form FIRM opinions with so little knowledge only pretend to be open-minded. They select their facts like food from a buffet. David R. Dow

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

              Those are incredible and interesting facts matapule.
              During my time up in Idaho, I felt out of place in the gun society it has.
              But truthfully, there is a security in folks that grew up with guns and have a respect for them.

              It's a bummer that America has soooo many guns out there.
              The more 'good' citizens that have guns the better. IMO
              Life is either an adventure... or you're not doing it right!!!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

                With respect to all, it should be noted that the Iraqui populace was one of the most heavily armed on earth prior to some haphazard events of late.

                The companies that sold arms to Saddam during the Iran/Iraq war are still around

                and doing quite nicely.

                Supra national bankers sitting at Zurich mansions smoking Cuban cigars and

                drinking the best aged Brandy.

                War takes money, and those who control the funds

                mastermind the wars.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

                  Frankly, Matapule I fail to see your problem.

                  We are doing betten than that average for intentional deaths, and firearms are only a wall part of the deaths that do occur in the U.S.

                  Granted, we can improve, if people would take NRA courses.

                  Actually, in Hawaii, it it mandatory to take an NRA or equivalent course before you procure a weapon. I applaud this strategy! Education is the best defense against firearm offense.

                  It is not that we must limit firearms, for how many firearms can a criminal carry?
                  Law abiding citizens have firearms for various reasons- hunting birds, pigs, deer, self protection, law enforcement, home protection, etc., all of which are valid.

                  But you cannot carry all those at one tome.

                  We need to prevent fully automatic weapons or military grade explosive weapons from civilian hands.

                  Strict gun control????? You have never - NEVER, explained exactly what you mean by that.

                  Pease put up or shut up.


                  orcement
                  Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                  ~ ~
                  Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                  Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                  Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

                    Originally posted by matapule View Post
                    Is that an opinion or fact based on substantiated research? If so provide a link (other than the NRA).
                    What...? Are you discriminating against the NRA? Their statistics are the tightest statistics in this whole argument.

                    This is like saying it is OK to debate Roman Catholicism, as long as you don'T listen to the Pope.

                    Get real!

                    By the way, I already posted the facts in this thread (post 17) and in another thread. I guess you ignored them, because they DID NOT come from the NRA?
                    Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                    ~ ~
                    Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                    Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                    Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

                      Originally posted by matapule View Post
                      Violent crime rates have been falling in recent years, but the number of people killed by firearms in the United States remains high. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, between 2006 and 2010 47,856 people were murdered in the U.S. by firearms, more than twice as many as were killed by all other means combined.
                      Thank you for that acknowledgement - you have the NRA to thank, because their free classes on firearm safety are changing the face of America.
                      Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                      ~ ~
                      Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                      Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                      Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

                        Originally posted by Kaonohi View Post
                        Are you discriminating against the NRA? Their statistics are the tightest statistics in this whole argument.

                        This is like saying it is OK to debate Roman Catholicism, as long as you don'T listen to the Pope.
                        No, those are not the same thing. I would encourage NRA involvement in a debate about gun control. But I would question any statistical survey about controversial aspects of Catholicism that was generated by The Vatican. Do you see the difference?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

                          Originally posted by Leo Lakio View Post
                          No, those are not the same thing. I would encourage NRA involvement in a debate about gun control. But I would question any statistical survey about controversial aspects of Catholicism that was generated by The Vatican. Do you see the difference?
                          Yes.
                          Whenever some entity is a party to the argument we must seriously consider the veracity of their claims, and what they choose to report or withhold.
                          Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                          ~ ~
                          Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                          Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                          Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Bureau of Justice Statistics

                            Originally posted by matapule View Post
                            Violent crime rates have been falling in recent years, but the number of people killed by firearms in the United States remains high. According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, between 2006 and 2010 47,856 people were murdered in the U.S. by firearms, more than twice as many as were killed by all other means combined.
                            4 or 5 years, 48,000 rounded 10 - 12K per year.

                            Bureau of Justice Statistics:
                            ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            In 2009 —
                            • An offender was armed with a gun, knife, or other object used as a weapon in an estimated 22% of all incidents of violent crime.
                            • .Offenders used firearms to commit 8% of violent crime incidents in 2009.
                            • Robberies (47%) were the most likely crime to involve an armed offender.
                            • Firearms (28%) were the most common weapons used in robberies.
                            • Most rapes and assaults did not involve the use of a weapon.
                            • From 1993-1997, of serious nonfatal violent victimizations, 28% were committed with a firearm, 4% were committed with a firearm and resulted in injury, and less than 1% resulted in gunshot wounds.
                            Presence of weapons in violent incidents, by type, 2009
                            Presence of
                            offender's weaponViolent crimeSexual AssaultRobberySimple/
                            aggravated assault Total100%100%100%100%No weapon73%85%48%76% Weapon22%10%*47%19% Firearm8 -- *28 5 Knife6 8 *9 5 Other7 2 *8 7 Type not ascertained2 -- *2 *1 Don't know6%5%*6%*6%
                            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            It's a good idea to reduce violent crimes, but I have not seen how "STRICT GUN CONTROL" will do this. Criminals aren't going to obey any new laws.
                            In spite of me asking you several times to define "STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW," you have failed to respond; sounds a bit like chicken little to me. Not only don't you know what's happening all you have to do something about it is to spout buzz words.

                            How do you propose to reduce firearm violence?
                            A house-to-house, vehicle and personal no-warrant search?
                            Banning the sale of new guns to honest citizens?
                            Turn over our rights to the UN?
                            Mandatory firearm safety classes?
                            Prefrontal lobotomy?
                            Some 'restriction' scheme?
                            Asking criminals to please turn in their guns?
                            Supporting and electing the rich gun grabbers?
                            Having the CIA send our weapons to Mexico drug dealers?

                            Please - before we support you we MUST know what you intend?
                            Are you looking for suggestions?

                            Obviously you either have me on ignore or are ignoring my messages, for you never respond. That is your right. You are not on trial.

                            I admire your intention (to stop or reduce unnecessary killing), but I question your methods. You seem to be in reaction, almost as if you were in the grip of a cult - saying what they tell you to say, and THAT is more scary than about 10,000 people a year (often mostly other criminals) out of a population of 312,000,000 +/-.

                            This is compared to 30,000 - 40,000 motor vehicle deaths per year.

                            It's GOOD to have all your statistics before running off half-cocked.

                            (Am I starting to sound like another fanatic?)
                            Last edited by Kaonohi; August 26, 2012, 08:42 PM.
                            Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                            ~ ~
                            Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                            Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                            Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Mass shooting at Empire State Building

                              Well said, Ron. Strict gun laws will only create a bloodbath by making citizens powerless to defend themselves from criminals.

                              Originally posted by matapule View Post
                              Is that an opinion or fact based on substantiated research? If so provide a link (other than the NRA).
                              http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html/

                              When will people like matapule learn that the majority of those who commit crimes with guns obtained their weapon illegally in the first place?
                              Originally posted by matapule View Post
                              Link?).
                              http://www.nytimes.com/1992/03/11/us...ted=all&src=pm

                              New laws will have no effect - except to make law-abiding citizens more vulnerable. Duh!
                              Originally posted by matapule View Post
                              Link?
                              http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html/

                              Satisfied? I didn't think so.
                              Mata, we know WAY more about guns and criminals than you do, and we want to stop violent crime just as much, or even more, than you do.
                              Last edited by Kaonohi; August 26, 2012, 08:36 PM.
                              Be Yourself. Everyone Else Is Taken!
                              ~ ~
                              Kaʻonohiʻulaʻokahōkūmiomioʻehiku
                              Spreading the virus of ALOHA.
                              Oh Chu. If only you could have seen what I've seen, with your eyes.

                              Comment

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