Gun Control

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Gun Control

Despite all our fancy schmancy technology, we still act like primates.

I doubt even monkeys would have the ability to produce a jury as primitive as Zim's.

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Gun Control

Add up the prejudice, the difficulty in finding a job, in getting a good education, the temptation of gang life or frankly the temptation of criminal activities and it is amazing any young Black males make it to profitable adulthood.

I agree the odds are stacked against Black males. Yeah, there are heroic stories of a few pulling themselves out of poverty, but the majority have a grim fate.

Putting barriers like Zimmerman in the path of young Black males

I dunno if people "like Zimmerman" are a significant barrier to young Black males. I assume you're talking about any non-law-enforcement person carrying a gun?

What about people who "kill with a pen"?

surplus males need to be eliminated and war is a great way to do that, and older gentlemen could easily feel their sexual advantages with the ladies threatened by young healthy vigorous males, so in both cases there'd be a subconscious predisposition to kill young males.

I agree with you there's a strong biological element behind our actions. Despite all our fancy schmancy technology, we still act like primates.

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

I have often wondered how young Black males make it to productive adulthood. The stat has been repeated but its worth repeating here, whites & Blacks have roughly equal rates of drug abuse but Blacks have much higher conviction rates and much longer sentences for the same offense. Note how the Zimmerman defense tried to portray the victim Martin as an evil sub human monster criminal because traces of cannabis were found in his blood, the cannabis made him (in their presentation) a criminal worthy of being murdered on the street. In reality it didn't, it never would, merely having traces of cannabis or anything else in your blood does not make you worthy of being murdered. Add up the prejudice, the difficulty in finding a job, in getting a good education, the temptation of gang life or frankly the temptation of criminal activities and it is amazing any young Black males make it to profitable adulthood. Not counting professional athletes. It is the biggest waste possible to waste human talent. If the doors were open to these people to be all they could be, to reach and deliver on their potential, we would all be ahead. Somebody is going to cure cancer, for example. No reason to put that off any longer than necessary. Putting barriers like Zimmerman in the path of young Black males, who might contribute to that goal and other worthy, needed goals, is insane.

I get some theories going sometimes, just kind of trying to understand things. During the Vietnam War I wondered if some of the motivation for old men to send young men to war weren't biological: surplus males need to be eliminated and war is a great way to do that, and older gentlemen could easily feel their sexual advantages with the ladies threatened by young healthy vigorous males, so in both cases there'd be a subconscious predisposition to kill young males. It does happen among our fellow mammals, its been pretty universal, one way or another societies have found ways to kill off the surplus males. And maybe its that way with Black males. Is it possible that white males in positions of power, or advantage, at some level have fear of Black males? Maybe fear of their reputed enhanced masculinity, their enhanced attractiveness to the ladies, kind of like how older gentlemen like to send younger guys off to wars to get killed or maimed or otherwise be at a competitive disadvantage. I wonder. So much of what we do is oriented by our subconsciousness, or by drives hardwired into us by a million years of evolution.

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Gun Control

So you are saying "Stand Your Ground" laws are "easy" solutions?

Are you saying SYG laws are solutions to society's problems?

Or it meant that gun nuts will always be gun nuts. Your conclusions are simplistic.

I have good role models

A perfect reason not to vote Teapubican!

They way you control a 2 year old who doesn't want to put their clothes on is to tell them they get to choose between wearing a blue shirt or a red shit.

Republican...Democrat...two faces of the same corruption.

Who is "we?" Don't presume to speak for me.

I guess I can no longer use the word "we". Communication is so challenging.

My greatest fear is not law enforcement but all the gun nuts in the US who appear to be willing to take the law into their own hands.

So just "appearing" to take the law into their own hands is scary? What if they take the law into their own hands without appearing to do so? Would that help?

Your criminologist completely misses the point. Jobs, education, hope in the future, and eradication of racism are the only solution to problems in the ghettos, not more police surveillance.

I agree the solutions you mentioned are more important that police surveillance.

So how does one achieve those goals?

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Gun Control

You are an a$$! A 16 year 21 day old boy was murdered and you want to make a joke out of it. Go to h3ll!

Uh...feel free to call me an arse, but I don't think it was Martin I was making fun of...

I'm sorry to see you've chosen to be offended. I hope you find inner peace in your life.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

Would it be less bravado and more acceptable if the gun was only half loaded?

You are an a$$! A 16 year 21 day old boy was murdered and you want to make a joke out of it. Go to h3ll!

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

Snippet of criminologist David Kennedy's op-ed in the LA times:

Your criminologist completely misses the point. Jobs, education, hope in the future, and eradication of racism are the only solution to problems in the ghettos, not more police surveillance.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

Politicians don't have to be experts in law enforcement to draft and vote on new laws. What they're experts at is getting elected. They mainly pander to the public, who react with emotion and prefer "easy" solutions.

So you are saying "Stand Your Ground" laws are "easy" solutions?

My guess is there was something about the bill which the audience felt was impractical to enforce or wouldn't make law abiding citizens any safer.

Or it meant that gun nuts will always be gun nuts. Your conclusions are simplistic.

The way I see it, the ultra wealthy use their power to take more wealth from the majority. This impoverishes the majority, who start to suffer and get angry. Instead of fixing this social injustice, law enforcement is tasked to "keep the peace". In other words, the majority is abused and then made to shut up.

A perfect reason not to vote Teapubican!

We're expecting law enforcement to "solve" society's problems, much like public school teachers.

Who is "we?" Don't presume to speak for me. I expect law enforcement to keep the peace and not abuse their power, that's all.

I agree with you that there's a volcano waiting to blow. When it does, I don't think there's enough cops to protect us. Everyone will have to take care of themselves, their family, and their community.

My greatest fear is not law enforcement but all the gun nuts in the US who appear to be willing to take the law into their own hands.

STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Gun Control

The bravado of carrying a fully loaded semi-automatic gun with no internal safety was the cause of the demise of a black youth.

Would it be less bravado and more acceptable if the gun was only half loaded?

Technically the Kel-Tec PF9 has an internal hammer block safety. Perhaps the term you're thinking of is an "external safety"?

By claiming a lack of an internal safety, your statement implies Martin was accidentally shot, when in fact Zimmerman pulled the trigger deliberately.

By highlighting the fact the gun was fully loaded, your statement implies Martin was killed because he was shot too many times, when in fact he was killed by a single shot, at point blank range, near the heart.

For Maui's sake, Zimmerman was taking a fully loaded gun to Target to purchase groceries.

If someone could predict the exact time and place they would be the victim of a violent crime, they could just carry their firearm on that occasion (or better yet avoid it). Since that's not possible, people conceal carry throughout their daily routine, even if it's just grocery shopping. Not so much inside the store, but rather for the riskier time where you are walking in the parking lot.


Here's an example of a properly holstered Kel-Tec PF9. Notice how the trigger is completely covered. Also the holster is made out of Kydex which is stiff enough to prevent indirect contact with the trigger.

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Gun Control

Snippet of criminologist David Kennedy's op-ed in the LA times:

The fact is that most of the recent debate entirely missed the point about the nature of most gun violence in America. The largest share — up to three-quarters of all homicides in many cities — is driven by gangs and drug crews. Most of the remainder is also concentrated among active criminals; ordinary citizens who own guns do not commit street robberies or shoot their neighbors and wives.

...

In the absence of any movement in the larger gun debate, mayors, police chiefs, prosecutors and academics have been moving on their own — and have made real progress. The way forward lies in two directions. One is to focus on "hot" groups and individuals. Gun violence turns out to be driven by a fantastically small number of people: about 5% of the young men in the most dangerous neighborhoods. It is possible to identify them, put together a partnership of law enforcement, community figures and social service providers, and have a face-to-face engagement in which the authorities say, "We know who you are, we know what you're doing, we'd like to help you, but your violence has to stop, and there will be serious legal consequences if it doesn't."


...


The second strategy involves focusing on "hot" places. Even in high-crime communities, gun violence is concentrated geographically. It is particular blocks and corners, not whole neighborhoods, that are at highest risk.

The downside to this strategy is it sounds like racial profiling. More importantly, it only tackles gun crime, which is just a symptom of a deeper social problem.

But it's interesting to see where law enforcement (at least the academic side of it) sees where the problem is.

[MyopicJoe]

Re: Gun Control

Interesting, the law enforcement peoples reactions against background checks. On the surface you might expect that they'd like background checks because it would make their work easier.

In business and politics, a lot of ideas sound good on paper until you actually have to implement them.

Politicians don't have to be experts in law enforcement to draft and vote on new laws. What they're experts at is getting elected. They mainly pander to the public, who react with emotion and prefer "easy" solutions.

My guess is there was something about the bill which the audience felt was impractical to enforce or wouldn't make law abiding citizens any safer.

The biggest bully in my high school became a cop. I have met good cops, nice cops, but also rude ones who knew they had the upper hand and used their power to abuse, humiliate, and insult.

I agree bullies are attracted to positions of power, such as law enforcement. My gut feeling is the majority want to do good, but they may turn mean because they are stuck in a difficult situation. A retired cop told me, "You're not a real cop until you've been divorced and sued by a civilian."

The way I see it, the ultra wealthy use their power to take more wealth from the majority. This impoverishes the majority, who start to suffer and get angry. Instead of fixing this social injustice, law enforcement is tasked to "keep the peace". In other words, the majority is abused and then made to shut up.

We're expecting law enforcement to "solve" society's problems, much like public school teachers.

I agree with you that there's a volcano waiting to blow. When it does, I don't think there's enough cops to protect us. Everyone will have to take care of themselves, their family, and their community.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

she had some interesting facts on Zimmerman: girlfriend got a restraining order against him because he beat her up, a female cousin claims he molested her, and his mom is a "loud and proud" racist.

Lopeti, I believe that the irresponsible, pudgy, unfit gun nut, Zimmerman will eventually wind up in jail for future crimes he is going to commit because he is a loser. Just like Simpson ( who I believe is guilty of two murders) who is another irresponsible loser wound up in jail and I believe he is still a menace to society like Zimmerman and I hope he never gets out.

STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

This makes no sense whatsoever as a comment on whether the jury acted properly. Of course, Martin had a right to defend himself. But Martin was not on trial -- he's dead. You just seem to be completely disoriented. I give up.

Trayvon was shot and murdered while he was trying to defend himself. Trayvon had a right to defend himself, Zimmerman did not have a right to murder him. The jury never considered that according to juror B37. What can't you understand about that? Of course you know nothing about this case other than what you read on the Internet. You didn't watch the trial in its entirety (or at all) like I did.

STRICT GUN CONTROL NOW!

[GregLee]

Re: Gun Control

You don't seem to understand or acknowledge that Trayvon had an equal right to defend himself, ...

This makes no sense whatsoever as a comment on whether the jury acted properly. Of course, Martin had a right to defend himself. But Martin was not on trial -- he's dead. You just seem to be completely disoriented. I give up.

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

If there were adequate background checks maybe a cop wanna be guy with a history of beating up girls and molesting girls might not have been allowed to pack. Doesn't sound like a very stable sort, not the sort to be trusted with a gun, was he? We can all be thankful it wasn't our kid he fixed on. The key to understanding is to imagine how we would feel if it HAD been your kid that got blown away, and whose shooting death the jury (5 whites, one hispanic) approved.