Gun Control

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

A difficulty with calling the NRA a terrorist organization or referring to anyone who disagrees with you as a nut, is that it is obviously untrue.

Really? The FBI investigated the Occupy Wall Street Movement as a potential terrorist organization. Did OWS advocate carrying arms like the NRA and its supporters? Your lack of objectivity and preconceived convictions are too apparent.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Gun Control

Logic.

I have presented the research and statistics that demonstrate that you are factually incorrect.

Yes, I am raving angry about the massacre of 20 children and six adults trying to protect them. I will not apologize for that.

I have submitted a program that will make owning a gun not in the owner's best interest. Nobody will take their gun away from them, they will turn them in voluntarily. That's my plan.

But research shows that the incidents will be dramatically reduced.

I prefer to live in a world at peace and will continue to work to that end. I was a member of the Peace Corps. Remember?

I've seen evidence of crazy in the NRA and its supporters, some of whom are members of HT.

It is a problem with several components with gun ownership and resultant gun violence being a major aspect. One step is to get rid of assault weapons and clips and gun violence and murder will become less efficient and much less frequent.

Please let us know when you'll be starting.

You cherry pick to suit your argument.

They were easy targets with nobody near with a gun to thwart the attack. Your way will allow that to continue, still with no apology, I guess.

That's illogical, protection against lawlessness is always in any person's best interest.

My way does it as well, if not better, and doesn't infringe on a person's right to defense or protect.

If wishes were fishes...

Some see those that want armed killers to be free to roam and unstoppable as more than crazy.

I'll never favor any plan that turns me into a less defensible citizen, don't impose your dreams on me.

[Kalalau]

Re: Gun Control

The point is, this is shoveling against the tide. How many thousands of schools will require armed guards? Yet there was an armed guard at Columbine and obviously that did no good at all. Are we really going to have to send firefighters out with armed guards? Have armed guards at theaters, malls, churches, AA meetings, restaurants, sporting events, offices, on and on and on?? An armed guard on every bus? What all these shootings have in common isn't the fact that people are massed in some location, it is assault weapons.

[tutusue]

Re: Gun Control

Using a school as an example...where is one armed guard placed in order to maximize effectiveness? Will a sicko armed and intent on harm enter a school in a location easily viewed by the guard? I don't think so. How many will be killed before the guard reaches the scene? Then there's the chance the guard will be added to the number killed. I agree with Matapule, Leo Lakio and Kalalau. And I'm sticking to it.

[Ron Whitfield]

Re: Gun Control

Using a school as an example...where is one armed guard placed in order to maximize effectiveness?

Will a sicko armed and intent on harm enter a school in a location easily viewed by the guard? I don't think so.

How many will be killed before the guard reaches the scene?

Then there's the chance the guard will be added to the number killed.

The talk is about having a cop on duty, that's better than a guard, but merely one is stretching things thin, and he can't be positioned, he has to roam.
Having an armed force of just one will disuade most from trying anything, knowing they'll not succeed in their mass murder plans, or hopefully not even get to start.

Multiple avenues of access need to be eliminated, and implement surveillance/communications to aid the cop/s.

Less than with no armed presence.

He'll likely be the 1st on the killer's list, more than one cop is needed.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

How many thousands of schools will require armed guards? Yet there was an armed guard at Columbine and obviously that did no good at all. Are we really going to have to send firefighters out with armed guards? Have armed guards at theaters, malls, churches, AA meetings, restaurants, sporting events, offices, on and on and on?? An armed guard on every bus?

The first person shot and murdered at the Holocaust Museum rampage in NYC was the armed guard! A lot of good that tactic is!

What all these shootings have in common isn't the fact that people are massed in some location, it is assault weapons.

There are too many weapons in the hands of people who live in the US. And having an unlicensed gun in your possession is not even a felony, it is a misdemeanor! There are too many people in this society who are gun nuts!

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

Will a sicko armed and intent on harm enter a school in a location easily viewed by the guard?

Being a "sicko" does not mean there is not a lot of forethought and advanced planning before the assault. Take Aurora, Columbine, Tucson, and Sandy Hook as a just a few examples. There was lot of advanced planning in each of these incidents. At Columbine, the shooters knew exactly where the roaming guard was during the attack so their vicious attack would be more deadly.

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

The talk is about having a cop on duty, that's better than a guard,

Why is a cop better than a guard? How do you propose that we are going to pay for this in the face of all States cutting their budgets for education? Oh wait, let's arm the teachers! Those same teachers who are having their salaries cut, being criticized for being lazy and stupid, and having their school supplies cut. But a gun for a teachers is a better expenditure than a book for a student.....right?.......at least in the insane mind of the NRA, their supporters, and the gun manufacturers!

but merely one is stretching things thin, and he can't be positioned, he has to roam.

How many cops do you want at each school - 1?, 10? 100?, one for each student? Absurd!

Having an armed force of just one will dissuade most from trying anything, knowing they'll not succeed in their mass murder plans, or hopefully not even get to start.

Says who (Oh that's tight the NRA)? It didn't work at Columbine or the Holocaust Museum, and countless other venues.

Multiple avenues of access need to be eliminated, and implement surveillance/communications to aid the cop/s.

Or you can do it the easy way by eliminating guns.

Less (people killed) than with no armed presence.

I don't care if it is just one killed in gun violence, it is one too many!

He'll likely be the 1st on the killer's list, more than one cop is needed.

Then how many cops do you want riding on the fire truck responding to a fire? Let's have more guns than firemen! - that'll make the lobby for the gun manufacturers (NRA) happy!

[matapule]

Re: Gun Control

You cherry pick (your statistics) to suit your argument.

I have yet to see you present any statistics, cherry picked or not.

They (the students at Sandy Hook) were easy targets with nobody near with a gun to thwart the attack. Your way will allow that to continue, still with no apology, I guess.

Who says a person with a gun would have thwarted the attack? That's right the NRA and their HT spokesperson Ron Whitfield.

That's illogical, protection against lawlessness is always in any person's best interest.

Depends on what it is going to cost them. Economics will soon win the argument.

My way does it as well, if not better, and doesn't infringe on a person's right to defense or protect.

If you want to live in a society of mass murder, paranoia, and gun violence, then, yes, your way does it better. My plan says that a person can own a gun, but they will be taxed for that right.

If wishes (world peace) were fishes...

Yes, I will not apologize for working toward peace and goodwill to all mankind on this Christmas Eve. The alternative is a society hell bent on self destruction via gun violence.

Some see those that want armed killers to be free to roam and unstoppable as more than crazy.

Anyone who would make such a ridiculous statement is, well,..............a paranoid gun nut.

I'll never favor any plan that turns me into a less defensible citizen, don't impose your dreams on me.

Tell that to American Indians or indigenous Hawaiians! Laughable!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Gun Control

Some of the best trained armed guards working in our nation are members of the Secret Service, assigned to protect the President of the United States.

Tell me ... did that stop someone from shooting Ronald Reagan?

This foolish argument of "more guns will stop the shootings" needs to be put to bed - there is NO PROOF that it works, and plenty of examples to prove that it DOES NOT WORK.

[Menehune Man]

Re: Gun Control

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blog...opstories.html
"A newspaper in New York has received a wave of criticism from its readers after publishing the names and addresses of all of the individuals with handgun or pistol permits in its coverage area..."

Legitimate gun owners names and addresses published in a newspaper?
Not criminals. Interesting to see how this plays out.

[GregLee]

Re: Gun Control

Some of the best trained armed guards working in our nation are members of the Secret Service, assigned to protect the President of the United States.

Tell me ... did that stop someone from shooting Ronald Reagan?

I wonder whether I'm following this. We should not put armed guards in schools, since this will not stop shooting students, just as the Secret Service is not able to prevent shooting presidents. Doesn't it follow that the Secret Service should not protect the President? Is that really what you want to be saying?

[Kaonohi]

Re: Gun Control

Your lack of objectivity and preconceived convictions are too apparent.

This is the pot calling the kettle black.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Gun Control

There are too many weapons in the hands of people who live in the US. And having an unlicensed gun in your possession is not even a felony, it is a misdemeanor! There are too many people in this society who are gun nuts!

And, too many anti-gun nuts as well. Though they are well-meaning, as is Matapule, they are ignorant.

Felony? misdemeanor? Depends on the State's laws. In many states having an unlicensed gun is a felony. Having two unlicensed guns is two felonies. A former wartime compatriot has a sentence of 70 years, for seven unlicensed guns. He was a gun nut, for sure. But he never hurt anyone, nor had any such intentions. He was more harmless than Matapule (who is hardly harmless).

It's not that there are too many guns - we only have two hands! We can only use two firearms at a time, no matter how many we have.

If we taught children about firearms in school, like we teach shop or football, taught them the potential for harm and the need to monitor their emotions, it would do more than any confiscation program.

People are fascinated by the forbidden. If we haven't learned that by now, our psychology science is bankrupt.

[Kaonohi]

Re: Gun Control

I don't care if it is just one killed in gun violence, it is one too many!

Well. That is one thing we can agree on! But... how to get there....