A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

[joshuatree]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

Hello, I'm new to the board but just have to chime in on the illegal immigration issue.

First off, I am a son of legal immigrants and non anglo-saxon. With that being said, I am AGAINST illegal immigration. It is a violation of our laws and a drain on our country's resources. I don't understand why so many Americans are conflicted on this issue. What part of the word illegal do you not understand? The fact that they blatantly disregard the laws and concepts of legal immigration show they are probably not going to make very good law abiding citizens that pro-amesty groups push for.

The argument that illegal immigrants contribute to the American economy and do the work that Americans won't do is a myth. If you take out the illegals competing for the low skilled jobs, there will be low skilled Americans that will step in. And if not, that's a sign that the job is underpaid and an exploitation by the employer. Our federal minimum wage is $5.15/hr. If you have jobs paying less, ie. farmhands, then you know that's a violation of the law and that's the reason why Americans won't do that job.

[joshuatree]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

It's also a myth that illegals contribute into the economy. Some use other Americans' SSN to get a job and the argument is that they do pay taxes. Is that really true? First, the illegal has stolen someone else's ID. Would you like to have someone else using your SSN? Second, just because they pay taxes in your SSN don't mean you benefit from it. What if you happen to make enough income to be borderline on two different tax brackets and Mr. Illegal's contributions bump you into the upper bracket? Then you pay more taxes when you don't have to. And third, anyone's who filled out a W-4 knows they can claim as many dependents as they want to the point where they don't pay any or little taxes during payday but will have to provide proof of the dependents or settle the tab during tax time which lo and behold, Mr. Illegal ain't gonna do.

Sure they may spend some of their paychecks for neccessities in this country and thus "grease" the wheels of the economy but most of it gets sent back to their home countries. And when it comes to medical care, hospitals are mandated by law to provide care no matter if the patient can afford it if it's an emergency. So guess who gets shafted with that tab? That's right, fellow Americans in the form of higher insurance premiums and doctor fees. That's why many ERs in California have shut down. They went bankrupt! So we Americans get our strawberries cheaper but what is the real cost?

True, some anti-illegal immigrant groups are racist and that I disagree with but let's face some facts. Some people in this discussion have accused of singling out Mexicans. This is because Mexicans comprise the majority of illegal immigrants. That's not singling out a race, that's just hard numbers because Mexico is right next door and has the easiest chance of crossing the border (Mexico and Canada). In addition, Mexicans single themselves out because they are the most vocal of all the illegal immigrant groups and especially when protesting on the streets, waving the Mexican flag. When I see that, I don't even know what you want? Do you want to be an American? If so, wrong flag buddy. Or if your message is, you are still patriotic to Mexico, why are you here then?

[joshuatree]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

There is no silver bullet to preventing illegal immigration. Any country on this planet has illegals within their boundaries. But the present estimated number of 12 million illegals is just ludicrous. That's even larger than the entire populations of some countries. The right steps to resolving this issue is to make it a crime for employers to hire illegals. They are just as guilty as the illegals themselves. Next is to locate and deport illegals. Third, build the wall along with the aerial high tech surveillance. The point is not that it will prevent illegals from crossing 100%. A lot of pro-illegals groups like to make this a sticking point but they are merely distracting the issue. The wall and surveillence is the first line of defense, the first filter. Even if it's 50% effective, 50% of 12 million, well, you get the point.

America is the land of opportunity but also a land of laws. If we let that slide, what's the point of legal immigration? What's the point of the USA trying to tell other countries how to live when we don't abide by our own rules? If you've entered this country legally, I welcome you. I'm not a racist. But if you're sneaking in, it's a slap across my face and others who either themselves or their ancestors took the time and effort to get here LEGALLY. Nobody likes a queue jumper. In regards to Mexico, they are not a poor country, their GDP doesn't even put them under third world status. They just have a very extreme division of the filthy rich and the dirt poor. Giving illegals from that country amnesty is not helping them, you're just prolonging the issue which is the need to reform their economy to provide opportunity to grow a middle class. If you force these illegals back, they'll yearn for a better life within their country and do something about it. Don't accuse Americans of being inhumane, heck our border patrol does a heck of a job treating illegals in distress crossing the border, they then get bussed back or even flown back. Try comparing that to what Mexico does with Guatamalan illegals on their southern border.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

uh huh.

I have similiar issues with national immigration. Now 51% of Hawai'i's population wasn't born here. And most other countries with small geographies limit their % of land allowed to be owned by foreign investors. Hawai'i faces a serious concern with the % of land ownership by those who do not live in Hawai'i.

[TuNnL]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

Interesting, Pua‘i Mana‘o, but similar is a stretch. More off-topic, I would say.

[damontucker]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

TuNnL - Why is that off stretch to the initial post?
From what I have read from Pua'i, she has strong feelings about her ties to the land here.
My wife has similar feelings. In fact... If my wife were to start up w/ her beliefs on here... She would be banned very quickly.
People that have only lived here and their families have been here since the early 1800's have very strong feelings about how Hawaii is no longer what it was before Captain Cook.

I see it being very similar in a sense... however, maybe a different thread could be opened about the "Captain Cook Days of Hawaii...etc."

Remember, TuNnL.... My wife was the so called "president" of the so called "hate haole club at her high school..." she still has strong feelings to this day...which I don't understand now that she is married to me.... a "Haole"

[TuNnL]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

Mānoa - none of what you just posted brings us any closer. In fact you’re even more off-topic with your racial issues. This thread is about illegal immigration. Pua‘i Mana‘o is talking about land ownership issues. Similar in a very, very vague kind of way. Different enough that it should be in another thread. Moving on ...

[damontucker]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

This thread is about illegal immigration. Pua‘i Mana‘o is talking about land ownership issues.

To Hawaiians like my wife...they are the same. To me... I'm open for discussion.

[TuNnL]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

I think you are oversimplifying the issues to sell your point, mānoa. But like you, I’m open to discussion. So, I bite. how is it that illegal immigration on the Mexican border is related to land ownership in Hawai‘i?

[Mahi Waina]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

Unless Hawaii's statehood is ruled invalid, our 1st Amendment 'right to travel' includes the right to own property, have access to legal representation, public services, education, etc.

The debate in California is about whether undocumented workers should have access to welfare, education, emergency medical care, etc.

IMHO, amnesty should be granted to any workers who have an employer willing to vouch for them; then deport all of the vagrants, those with criminal records, etc.

[sinjin]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

But if you're sneaking in, it's a slap across my face and others who either themselves or their ancestors took the time and effort to get here LEGALLY. Nobody likes a queue jumper.

Do you really believe that it's simply a matter of taking the "time and effort" to get in legally? You're clueless.

[Miulang]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

You want to find illegal immigrants? They're really not that hard to find. Start with the homes of the rich and famous where they are hired as servants, nursemaids, yard boys, pool cleaners. Then move on to construction, where most of the nonunion jobs are being done by illegal workers. Move on to the restaurant industry and check out the busboys, the dishwashers. Employers of migrant farm workers have had their hands slapped enough times by the government that they are pretty good about only hiring legal workers, but that also leaves them with a shortage of workers to pick the crops that are destined for our tables, which increases our food costs.

Make each employer responsible for ensuring that they only hire legal immigrants? That would be nice, but there aren't enough INS people (I think they are now part of HLS) to enforce the rule.

Most of the time, we only think of illegal immigrants as taking away jobs from citizens. The fact is, employers sometimes take advantage of those illegal workers by stiffing them on their pay (look at the post-Katrina recovery) or subjecting them to less than adequate working conditions (sweat shops in the clothing district of NYC) because they know the workers won't say anything because if they do, they will be deported.

There's complicity between the employer of illegal workers and the workers themselves. So who's more wrong? The employer who needs workers to get the job done (and doesn't care where they come from) or the illegal worker who takes a job knowing that they can't say anything if they are abused? If the illegal worker is making money and paying taxes, they don't tax the state welfare system.

Miulang

[joshuatree]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

Do you really believe that it's simply a matter of taking the "time and effort" to get in legally? You're clueless.

No, it's not a simple issue but I like to hear you explain your point of view instead of a simple accusation that I'm clueless. If you're referring to some getting in illegally because of persecution in their respective home countries, that's called seeking political asylum and the US has always had that policy such as the wet foot/dry foot policy for Cubans. If you're referring to the fact that they just want to seek a better quality of life, well who doesn't? If I like to be as rich as Bill Gates, should I go around robbing banks and evading taxes to reach that goal?

[timkona]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

Hawai'i faces a serious concern with the % of land ownership by those who do not live in Hawai'i.

90%+ of the land in Hawaii is owned by less than 100 landowners, which include the various Govts & the Bishop Estate, among others.

I'm sure it was better when 1 owner, the King, owned everything. Better for the subject's to own nothing than to have the possibility of ownership. At least that way they(the subjects) would be unable to sell the land to outsiders. It's almost as if Puai presumes that "the subjects" are not capable of holding on to their own lands.

Any thoughts on title to lands that were sold by the Royal Family, or their heirs to people not from Hawaii? Maybe the Royal Family screwed up too?

Bishop portrays itself as beneficial to Hawaiians. You should ask some of my neighbors in South Kona, who are being squeezed off their land by increasing rents. Some of these families have 4+ generations of history in the same home. The Bishop has done an EXCEPTIONAL job of propaganda to preserve its' own image among Hawaiians. SKam School is making smart kids, but at what cost?

The King and The Bishop can pound salt. I believe in the people, and their inherent right to buy, own, use, or sell, the land they love.

Sorry about the drift. Couldn't leave it alone.

[sinjin]

Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

No, it's not a simple issue but I like to hear you explain your point of view instead of a simple accusation that I'm clueless. If you're referring to some getting in illegally because of persecution in their respective home countries, that's called seeking political asylum and the US has always had that policy such as the wet foot/dry foot policy for Cubans. If you're referring to the fact that they just want to seek a better quality of life, well who doesn't? If I like to be as rich as Bill Gates, should I go around robbing banks and evading taxes to reach that goal?

How many Mexicans a year are allowed to legally immigrate to the U.S.?