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  • #76
    Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

    Originally posted by Miulang
    You want to find illegal immigrants? They're really not that hard to find. Start with the homes of the rich and famous where they are hired as servants, nursemaids, yard boys, pool cleaners. Then move on to construction, where most of the nonunion jobs are being done by illegal workers. Move on to the restaurant industry and check out the busboys, the dishwashers. Employers of migrant farm workers have had their hands slapped enough times by the government that they are pretty good about only hiring legal workers, but that also leaves them with a shortage of workers to pick the crops that are destined for our tables, which increases our food costs.
    Agreed that it's not hard to find the illegal immigrants but right now, we're not doing enough to discourage the use of illegals. As for the farming sector, herein lies an important issue. The issue of food costs. People argue without illegals, our food costs will go up. But has anyone realized that maybe the costs of food in this country may not be at a realistic price and is merely the result of sweatshop labor and wages? We're just deceiving ourselves that this country doesn't exploit others. And I'm not really sold that agriculture can't provide food at current prices without the use of illegal labor. A lot of agricultural sectors get HUGE gov't subsidies even if they don't need them. It's corporate greed.
    Originally posted by Miulang
    Make each employer responsible for ensuring that they only hire legal immigrants? That would be nice, but there aren't enough INS people (I think they are now part of HLS) to enforce the rule.
    You have to start somewhere to correct this problem. No one ever said it will be an overnight solution.
    Originally posted by Miulang
    Most of the time, we only think of illegal immigrants as taking away jobs from citizens. The fact is, employers sometimes take advantage of those illegal workers by stiffing them on their pay (look at the post-Katrina recovery) or subjecting them to less than adequate working conditions (sweat shops in the clothing district of NYC) because they know the workers won't say anything because if they do, they will be deported.
    As I've stated before, employers are just as guilty of this issue as illegals and I do believe they should be punished as well.
    Originally posted by Miulang
    There's complicity between the employer of illegal workers and the workers themselves. So who's more wrong? The employer who needs workers to get the job done (and doesn't care where they come from) or the illegal worker who takes a job knowing that they can't say anything if they are abused? If the illegal worker is making money and paying taxes, they don't tax the state welfare system.
    I don't know how true that last statement is. Just because an illegal is making money and paying taxes (assuming through someone else's SSN), doesn't mean he/she can't be taxing the welfare system on the side. There's no way to track it.
    Last edited by admin; January 1, 2007, 06:04 PM. Reason: Fixed post. Learn to quote, please!

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

      fyi: they don't have quotas for each country per se anymore, but here is the current info on quotas (as of 1998), by type of visa offered:

      Summary of Current U.S. Immigration Law
      Traditional Immigration:

      U.S. Immigration law is complex. Currently, traditional immigrants are allowed entry to the United States under three major categories, each with its own set of "preferences." Annually, these three categories include:

      Family-Sponsored Immigrants. Up to 480,000 visas in four preference categories:

      *unmarried sons and daughters of U.S. citizens
      *spouses and unmarried children of lawful permanent residents
      *married sons and daughters of U.S. citizens
      *brothers and sisters of U.S. citizens


      Employment-Based Immigrants. Up to 140,000 visas in five preference categories, including:

      *"Priority workers," including professors and researchers; executives and managers of multinational corporations; etc.
      *Professionals with advanced degrees
      *Skilled workers, other professionals, and "other workers"
      *"Special immigrants," such as ministers of religion, foreign medical graduates, etc.
      *Investors


      Diversity Immigrants. Up to 55,000 visas to promote immigration from those countries that are not currently the principal sources of immigration to the United States. Visas are distributed in six geographic regions:

      Africa
      Asia
      Europe
      North America
      South America, Central America, and the Caribbean
      Oceania
      Refugees and Asylees:

      Refugees and asylees are persons who are outside their country and are unable or unwilling to return to that country because of a well-founded fear that they will be persecuted because of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

      The president, in consultation with Congress, annually sets the number of refugees that can be admitted into the United States.

      For fiscal year (FY) 1997, the president authorized the admission of up to 78,000 people, while the actual number of admitted refugees was 70,085. For FY 1998, the authorization has been set at 83,000 refugees.


      That little trade agreement called NAFTA has to be thrown into this mix, too, when it comes to applicants from Canada and Mexico. So "legally", we only allow about 500,000 people into this country every year. Wonder how many Americans leave the country annually to live abroad?

      Miulang
      Last edited by Miulang; September 22, 2006, 12:16 PM.
      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

        Originally posted by sinjin
        How many Mexicans a year are allowed to legally immigrate to the U.S.?
        Ok.....dunno why you're only focusing on one ethnic group but here are is your answer.

        2003 - 56,093 naturalized, 12.1% of all people naturalized that year
        2004 - 63,840 naturalzied, 11.9% of all people naturalized that year
        2005 - 77,089 naturalized, 12.8% of all people naturalized that year

        Of all the countries of origin on those stats, Mexico leads with the most number of people naturalizing. Information was pulled from the link below.

        http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/shared...tics/index.htm

        If you have more questions, you can use that link to look it up.

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

          Originally posted by joshuatree
          Ok.....dunno why you're only focusing on one ethnic group but here are is your answer.

          2003 - 56,093 naturalized, 12.1% of all people naturalized that year
          2004 - 63,840 naturalzied, 11.9% of all people naturalized that year
          2005 - 77,089 naturalized, 12.8% of all people naturalized that year

          Of all the countries of origin on those stats, Mexico leads with the most number of people naturalizing. Information was pulled from the link below.

          http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/shared...tics/index.htm

          If you have more questions, you can use that link to look it up.
          Are those not numbers of people becoming citizens?

          My point was that if you're Mexican and wait to enter legally you'll be waiting forever.
          “First we fought the preliminary round for the k***s and now we’re gonna fight the main event for the n*****s."
          http://hollywoodbitchslap.com/review...=416&printer=1

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          • #80
            Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

            Originally posted by sinjin
            Are those not numbers of people becoming citizens?

            My point was that if you're Mexican and wait to enter legally you'll be waiting forever.
            That's very true, when you're competing against "the rest of the world" also trying to live here legally! And just because you've got ohana who are already citizens, it doesn't necessarily mean that you can just legally waltz to our shores.

            Miulang
            "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

              Originally posted by sinjin
              Are those not numbers of people becoming citizens?

              My point was that if you're Mexican and wait to enter legally you'll be waiting forever.

              Well if they became citizens, then one can infer that they had to get in legally to start the naturalization process. Besides, there's more detailed info on that link if you want a breakdown on visas, etc.

              Counterpoint is, all foreigners, not just Mexicans have to wait their turn and all illegals should not be rewarded for not willing to wait their turn.

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

                This new Boeing contract for surveillance systems to "patrol" the Mexico-US and eventually the Canada-US border looks like a boondoggle. When those who wish to enter the country illegally discover that it's harder to cross the border, one serious gap still remains: our seaports.

                Homeland Security contends that it's an integrated system (the first, says Michael Chertoff) that we've ever had. But as the head of the National Border Patrol Council says, what good is a surveillance system if you don't have enough border patrol agents to capture those sneaking across the borders?

                Even Boeing admits that the system, if proven successful, will only offshift people from the borders to the seaports, which Congress already knows is still wide open to threats of WMDs from overseas. So unless Congress approves the funding needed to secure our ports of entry, surveilling the borders will do squat. We'll have "boat people" not just from Cuba, but from Mexico, too.

                Chertoff also says his department will monitor Boeing closely. Well, with the success Homeland Security has had with watching their contractors rebuild New Orleans, I'd say this was a slam dunk huge profit for Boeing without all the accountability required. $2.5 billion returned to the States to help them meet the provisions of the "No Child Left Behind" Act, or a portion used to hire more Border Patrol agents, would be more beneficial.

                Miulang
                "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

                  I don’t see it as a boondoggle at all. If Michael Chertoff wants to prove his department is legitimate, a kick in the @ss is what he needs. More power to Boeing. They’ve got the ball rolling. Chertoff has his hands on the strings, so he is tasked with making things work in concert. Step 2: Port Security. Let’s see if the Bush Administration can keep up, or get steamrolled by the progress it is attempting to initiate.

                  We can’t be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans.

                  — U.S. President Bill Clinton
                  USA TODAY, page 2A
                  11 March 1993

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

                    Originally posted by TuNnL
                    I don’t see it as a boondoggle at all. If Michael Chertoff wants to prove his department is legitimate, a kick in the @ss is what he needs. More power to Boeing. They’ve got the ball rolling. Chertoff has his hands on the strings, so he is tasked with making things work in concert. Step 2: Port Security. Let’s see if the Bush Administration can keep up, or get steamrolled by the progress it is attempting to initiate.
                    I hope you're right, but if you had to go by the current Administration's past scorecard, I'd say the chances are way more than even that HSA will botch this up like they did when they emasculated FEMA. And there's no Brownie to throw to the wolves as a sacrifice anymore.

                    Miulang
                    "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration "Problem"

                      What immigrant problem? Someone needs to keep McDonalds open. <I'm kidding...geez...>
                      sigpic

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                      • #86
                        Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration &quot;Problem&quot;

                        Talk about hypocritical...Golden State Fence Co., a firm that was contracted to construct the fencing that is being used to protect us at our southern borders, was fined $5 million for 10 counts of knowingly hiring illegal immigrants; the company officers could also face jail time.

                        This is how big business intends to solve the illegal immigration problem???

                        Miulang
                        "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration &quot;Problem&quot;

                          Originally posted by Miulang View Post
                          Talk about hypocritical...Golden State Fence Co., a firm that was contracted to construct the fencing that is being used to protect us at our southern borders, was fined $5 million for 10 counts of knowingly hiring illegal immigrants; the company officers could also face jail time.

                          This is how big business intends to solve the illegal immigration problem???

                          Miulang
                          Bad development although funny thought. What was the company planning to do? Right as the last section of the fence is about to be completed, they kick the workers over to the other side?

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration &quot;Problem&quot;

                            I am a War Resister and am an organizer with No One Is Illegal. I just came across this thread and thought maybe someone might be interested in this case that I am presenting. I know it is in Canada. But the same things are happening back home in the United States.

                            No One is Illegal (Toronto) is a group of immigrants, refugees and allies who fight for the rights of all migrants to live with dignity and respect. We believe that granting citizenship to a privileged few is part of a racist immigration and border policy designed to exploit and marginalize migrants. We work to oppose these policies, as well as the international economic policies that create the conditions of poverty and war that force migration. At the same time, we also work to support and building alliances with our Indigenous brothers and sisters in their fight against colonialism, displacement and the ongoing occupation of their land.


                            Mr. Haftvan is an Iranian-Armenian artist, director and writer, who has been residing in Canada for almost 12 years. After over a decade in this country Mr. Haftvan faces deportation to Iran on January 11, 2007. As an Armenian-Iranian, known for staging controversial plays, and a long-time human rights activist Mr. Haftvan would be in great danger if returned to Iran.

                            Mr. Haftvan is well known in the Toronto theatre community, he has staged dozens of productions in Farsi, English, as well as Armenian and Russian. His work has a tremendous artistic range from serious dramatic productions such as Harold Pinter’s The Lover and Chekhov’s Seagull to more humorous pieces such as Sun . . . day produced by his ReeRa productions.

                            Mr. Haftvan’s productions would be seen as controversial, particularly from the vantage point of an oppressive Islamic Government known for their human rights abuses as they often focus on female sexuality and sexual relations. A prominent example of this kind of treatment of the female character could be seen in Mr. Haftvan’s one woman piece Perchance to Dream, which weaved together a patchwork of references to canonical theatre pieces such as Hamlet, Pygmalion as well as Cinderella. Once again, this kind of a treatment of an over-sexualized female character, parading on the stage in a nightgown is taboo for an Islamic audience in Iran, a country that dictates the wearing of the veil.

                            As a prominent member of the Armenian community, Mr. Haftvan faces additional risks in Iran. Many of Mr. Haftvan’s productions draw inspiration from prominent Armenian writers and artists. His last English Language production, which was staged in Toronto in the first week of December 2006 was based on the Armenian-American playwright William Saroyan’s play Hello Out There. As a director known for his Armenian roots and for featuring this part of his identity in his work, Mr. Haftvan would be in considerable danger if returned to Iran under the thumbs of an Islamic government committed to eradicating the presence of religious minorities.

                            Censorship and the suppression of Iranian artists, journalists and academics are widely practiced by the Islamic Government of Iran. The recent murder and rape of Iranian-Canadian photo-journalist, Zahra Kazemi is one small example of the daily brutalities committed by the government. A recent report titled Iran: Amnesty International concerned at increasing censorship circulated by Amnesty International on December 6, 2006 states:

                            “Amnesty International is greatly concerned at the rising tide of censorship in Iran and the government’s continuing harassment of human rights defenders. The blocking of access to Internet sites, closure of newspapers and websites, the banning of books, and arrests and intimidation of journalists, bloggers and human rights defenders who spread the news of human rights violations indicate the Iranian authorities’ continuing and increasing restriction of the right to freedom of expression, including the right to freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas.”

                            Mr. Haftvan is not only an artist, and an Armenian, he is also a long time human rights activist who has taken part in international human rights campaigns in defense of Iranian intellectuals, artists and human rights defenders such as Dr. Ramin Jahanbegloo and renowned Investigative Journalist Akbar Ganges. Mr. Haftvan helped to organize public rallies, meetings, media campaigns and petitions in support of these highly visible Iranian prisoners.


                            Upon his arrival in Canada Mr. Haftvan filed for refugee status, and was denied due the failures of our immigration system. After many years of living, working and community building in Canada Mr. Haftvan applied for a Humanitarian and Compassionate Application. His application was accepted before September 11, 2001 but put on hold after September 11 due to an extensive security check which Mr. Haftvan finally passed. At that point Mr. Haftvan’s application was once again stalled and he was asked to complete an additional medical examination. Mr. Haftvan wrote a letter asking for the reason for an additional medical exam. His letter was never answered and in turn he was sent notice informing him that due to his failure to complete the medical exam his Humanitarian Application was considered abandoned and he was to leave Canada. At that point Mr. Haftvan completed a second Pre-Removal Risk Assessment on his own (This application has an over 98% failure rate) not surprisingly that application was rejected and Mr. Haftvan was issued a deportation order for January 11, 2007. Currently, Mr. Haftavn is working with No One is Illegal Toronto and the Downtown Legal Services in order to stop his deportation.

                            As a prominent artist, Armenian, and activist Mr. Haftvan is a natural target for the Islamic Republic of Iran, if returned to his country of birth, he is sure to become yet another victim.

                            eir fight against displacement and the ongoing theft of their land.

                            Our demands:


                            National Regularization Program for non-status people

                            An end to detentions and deportations

                            An immediate end to security certificates and secret trials

                            An end to racial or religious profiling

                            Recognition of the right to free movement

                            Recognition of Indigenous sovereignty

                            An End to Imperialist Wars and Occupations (Including Support for War Resisters)




                            Christopher Magaoay
                            War Resisters Support Campaign - Spokesperson
                            No One Is Illegal Toronto - Organizer
                            http://www.toronto.nooneisillegal.org
                            "Canada shall be a refuge from militarism"
                            Prime Minister Piere Trudeau

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                            • #89
                              Re: A solution to the Illegal Immigration &quot;Problem&quot;

                              Why don't we just let the illegals work and tax the 20% and give the money to the unemployed Americans? Actually all the jobs that the Immies do no American wants to do.

                              It would be interesting to see how that system would really work!

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