Haiti earthquake disaster

[Adri]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Sad article on Haiti's restavek children

http://www.newsweek.com/id/232865

[Kaonohi]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Haiti does not have that support, though it was the first independent nation in Latin America.

Or maybe... because?

Independence has its costs - remember the struggles of newly independent United States of America. I am pro-independence - this does not mean, however, that we neglect helping our independent, but different, neighbors in need.

K

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Another case of good intentions gone awry. Or is the motive pure?

Ten Americans are detained by the Haitian govt. when they are caught trying to bus 33 Haitian children over the border into the Dominican Republic.

Guardian angels for those kids. Or child traffickers. Take your pick.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Six boys? Some people are gluttons for punishment. The only thing worse would be six daughters!

But you get the point. Those six boys will support you in your old age through SS contributions, but who is going to support them when they retire? My two children, daughters, have elected not to have children. Who is goinng to support them?

It's a conundrum, but we're way off topic here, and I apologize for it.

This is why it's a ponzy scheme. One good thing about my boys is that they tell me they will provide for my wife and I when they can. Nice to have doctors and lawyers in the family.

[salmoned]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Leo, If moving forward means responding to every chosen post, without intent or content, keep on truckin', bro.

Stinky, yes, maybe I misspoke. I meant that the population, whether excessive or not, is directly responsible for their situation, including poor governance, lack of money, environmental degradation, etc. (though the unsustainable SIZE of the population contributed mightily to all those issues).

Those other overpopulated caribbean islands are spoiled as well, by the influence and economic infusion of their protector nations (just as many native Hawaiians believe Hawaii is being spoiled by 'outsider' influence and opulence). Their overlarge populations are supported by external inputs, without which their numbers would necessarily collapse.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Nor does the statement above clarify your intent.

Clarifying intent with you is a futile exercise, in which I do not wish to waste my time, nor the patience of others reading this thread. You have made your position clear and have no intention of accepting any other. I can move forward with that knowledge - I care not whether you do the same.

[StinkyTheGrump]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

I think that Salmoned is merely pointing out the fact that Haiti's more densely populated neighbors are being supported by some of the world's wealthiest countries, who invest some of their wealth to maintain their tropical paradises.

Yes, I can see what he's pointing out and it constitutes a reversal of his position. He said that "Haiti IS a tropical paradise which has been spoiled by overpopulation (and nothing else)." So according to him, poor governance or lack of money (or any other factor) did not spoil Haiti, only overpopulation. Well, Haiti's neighbors have more "overpopulation" and are not spoiled. Thus there are other factors that spoiled Haiti. Perhaps I've misunderstood him or he misspoke, I'm trying to figure that out.

[turtlegirl]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

I think that Salmoned is merely pointing out the fact that Haiti's more densely populated neighbors are being supported by some of the world's wealthiest countries, who invest some of their wealth to maintain their tropical paradises. Haiti does not have that support, though it was the first independent nation in Latin America.

[StinkyTheGrump]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Stinky, I believe you can answer that question yourself with a little due diligence. You may be referring to Puerto Rico(US), Aruba(Neth), Barbados(UK) or Martinique(Fr)? Just a cursory glance at the list answers the question. A viable comparison can better be made with Cuba - about the same population with nearly 4 times the land area.

So you are admitting that there is something else and are retreating from your previous position? - "Haiti IS a tropical paradise which has been spoiled by overpopulation (and nothing else)."

[salmoned]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Oops, double post.

[salmoned]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

You may, of course, infer anything you like from my posting; it does not make it my intent.

Nor does the statement above clarify your intent.

Stinky, I believe you can answer that question yourself with a little due diligence. You may be referring to Puerto Rico(US), Aruba(Neth), Barbados(UK) or Martinique(Fr)? Just a cursory glance at the list answers the question. A viable comparison can better be made with Cuba - about the same population with nearly 4 times the land area. Even better, compare Haiti to its most near neighbor, Dominican Republic with about 1/2 the density. Of course, it's not density alone that is the deciding factor (else many other places would be even more destitute) and I never stated or implied that it was. As for Malthus, he pointed out a trivial mathematical fact, nothing more, nothing less.

Matapule, fate refers to the future (destiny), not the present. The present is a fait accompli and to suggest it was destined to happen [after the fact] is meaninglessly arcane, if not inane. ('It was fate that I said it was fate that I said it was fate!', or, 'I am doomed to say I am doomed to say I am doomed!')

[StinkyTheGrump]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Haiti IS a tropical paradise which has been spoiled by overpopulation (and nothing else).
No pain, no gain. - Tough love

Several of Haiti's island neighbors have higher population densities. Why is overpopulation the cause of all of Haiti's problems while Haiti's more densely populated neighbors thrive?
Are you a fan of Thomas Malthus, by chance?

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Leo, your numerical list seems to imply the people of Haiti weren't active participants in creating that list, that they haven't been the primary contributors toward their current situation. If you believe that, then our best approach would be to leave them alone to solve their own problems since our 'helping' has caused such a mess for their country.

You may, of course, infer anything you like from my posting; it does not make it my intent.

[matapule]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

There is no answer if its fate is sealed.

Haiti's CURRENT fate was sealed long ago and exascerbated with benign neglect by those countries who were in a position to help most. Haiti has the potential for a bright future given the right opportunities and assistance, but death by starvation is not one of them. Education and organized family planning will work wonders for a start.

[salmoned]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Kaonohi, you wrote, "My strategy is different than yours. It may be that someone I save through disaster relief - because they know the pain of overpopulation - may be the ONE who helps us balance our population on Earth." That certainly sounds like you are looking to a savior, 'the ONE', to help us.

Leo, your numerical list seems to imply the people of Haiti weren't active participants in creating that list, that they haven't been the primary contributors toward their current situation. If you believe that, then our best approach would be to leave them alone to solve their own problems since our 'helping' has caused such a mess for their country.

Matapule, if Haiti's fate is sealed to doom, we and they have no recourse - let it be. There is no answer if its fate is sealed. [Which is nonsense, of course.] Haiti IS a tropical paradise which has been spoiled by overpopulation (and nothing else). That overpopulation has been caused by the influx of food, mainly or partly provided by 'humanitarian' aid. Lowering food influx WILL lower population, and not just by starvation (though there may be some short term suffering of that sort, the long term benefits outweigh a hundred fold). To avoid that short term suffering, let [us] other countries open [our arms] to Haitian emigrants, rather than send aid to a doomed country.

There are dozens of good solutions to the 'Haitian problem'. Doing what we've been doing is NOT one of them.

No pain, no gain. - Tough love