Haiti earthquake disaster

[matapule]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

[salmoned]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

You're not the humanitarian you believe yourself to be, but I doubt you will ever realize that fact.

I might hope, were I in need, for my social structure to provide assistance. I would not expect or hope for assistance from any other social structure unless that structure was the cause of my need.

[You're absolutely wrong, disaster will never happen to me. I may face adversity, but I'll deal with it my way, not yours.]

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

One day disaster will happen to you, shall we exercise that same thought? Or do we help you?

No matter what you feel about yourself and the way you treat others, there are those that will (despite your refusal), will risk their lives and comfort to aid and assist you.

You can't change the way humanitarians think or feel, and we can't change the way you feel, however we will still save your life because as that old cliche goes, "the life you save may be your own". And that's money in the bank.

[salmoned]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

It seems I am being misunderstood here. I am not showing disgust for my fellow humans (Tutusue), I am merely expressing the opinion that if we provide aid now, we will forever bear responsibility for all the pain and suffering resulting from that aid. If we increase Haiti's food supply, we will be effectively increasing Haiti's population and their population problem will be our fault to the degree in which we abet it.

I am alive and taking care of myself as best I can. When I suffer, I take care of it myself [within the social structure of which I am a part]. Also, I help others in my social structure as well as I can. I don't interfere with social structures of which I am not a part out of respect for the right of others to live in a social structure of their own choosing. If I cause pain or suffering in another social structure, I will work to remedy the damage. I am not a god and I don't have a right or responsibility to help every other human on the face of the earth. As well, I know there are many more millions suffering worse than the Haitians are now and I am not helping them either. Not because I can't, because I choose to allow them to suffer in dignity as their right as human beings.

It so happens I believe the most necessary help I can provide to humanity is to work toward the reduction of the world's human population and the preservation of the diversity of species. I believe these efforts will best lead to the continuation of our species for the greatest duration possible, my ultimate goal for our species. All my charitable giving goes toward those causes (with nothing left over for disaster relief).

Craig, no it wouldn't surprise me that others choose to work for the maximization of human protoplasm on earth. That goes to my moniker - I know I'm swimming upstream against the flow of a river much larger than myself, yet I must try to reach the headwaters to plant a seed of reason and restraint.

Craig, is there less suffering now as a result of decades of aid or more? Is the need for aid less now or greater? Will we ever see the need for aid abated through the efforts of aid workers? I suggest there is more suffering now, more need for aid now, and we will never see the overall need for aid abated via the efforts of aid workers. That effort is simply stoking the fire, not quenching it.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Okay, so the Dominicans, who know the Haitians best, are evil and don't want to help. I don't buy it, but you can hold that opinion, Craig. We, on the other hand, who haven't been doing much for the Haitians all along, are good because we now respond in this crisis by sending our troops, taking control of their airport and delaying aid flights in favor of more US military flights. We keep aid in the airport compound rather than air lift it to those in need, but we're doing all we can to help. Yeah, I get it.

There's a lot of suffering in the world, most of it not in Haiti - are you doing all you can to relieve it? [That's a rhetorical question] I can only ask, 'Why Haiti and why now?" Aren't you just following the latest media blitz, helping these poor bastards (the media) prove how powerful they are, how much money they can focus on a problem, if only to cover up the few real problems we should be addressing? Wouldn't it be a bore if the media focused on a single issue or two for years, or however long it took, until the issue was resolved? Oh look, earthquake in Haiti, send cash now, move on to next minor sensation. Repeat until dead.

It's not hearing loss, Leo, it's the death knell of all those species (and the constant wailing of ever more human babies being born) that's drowning out the feeble wailing of those suffering Haitians. If you could at least read and quote the whole sentence, you may discover the concept it conveys. It takes 44 days for world population to increase enough to replace Haiti's entire population (about 9 million) - that's a lot of wailing.

Would it surprise you if I told you that the Lions Club International has been helping Haiti continuosly for years? That the International Red Cross has been helping Haiti for years? That many international service groups have been a part of Haiti's humanitarian needs for years? It's not just what we do when crisis hits, it's what service groups worldwide do on a daily basis. But when crisis hits, the need for help can be overwhelming and more than what service groups can handle and that's when the word goes out to the rest of the world for help as we see now.

Do we (the Lions Clubs) ignore domestic tragedy? Of course not, we spread ourselves thin with 1.4 million members in over 64 countries (including Haiti) to provide whatever we can to aid those in need domestically to internationally. Funds from all these clubs channel thru Lions Club International Fund (LCIF) to provide assistance anywhere on earth. Monies from Chinese Lions clubs, India, Russia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, even Haiti find their way to domestic problems such as Katrina here in the US even locally to Iniki.

This is the bigger picture all international service organizations do on a global scale for all nations. We are autonomous to the red tape of governments.

When you read about the need to help in the papers its because of the overwhelming need beyond the service infrastructure that is already in place.

[matapule]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

I found a website once of the major charities in the world and what percentage of their costs went to administration and advertising.

This isn't the site I was thinking of, but it will work for Haiti. Both Doctors Without Borders and UNICEF (my chosen organization) are 4 star.

[matapule]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

My donation is going to an organization called "Doctors Without Borders"

Both these stories are terribly sad:As Wallets Open For Haiti, Credit Card Companies Take A Big Cut

Not to mention the controversy surrounding the mismanagement of Jean Wyclef's charitable(?) foundation, Yele Haiti.

There are many good organizations with little or no administrative cost. I found a website once of the major charities in the world and what percentage of their costs went to administration and advertising. Can't find it right now.

But I'm going with Ana on this one, Doctors without Borders is one of the good ones.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Both these stories are terribly sad:

As Wallets Open For Haiti, Credit Card Companies Take A Big Cut

Not to mention the controversy surrounding the mismanagement of Jean Wyclef's charitable(?) foundation, Yele Haiti.

The waste, inefficiency and lack of qualified oversight over the funds collected and spent by the rapper's charity is truly shameful. Even if it is true that Wyclef never embezzled any funds to benefit himself, the inability to effectively adminster a multi-million dollar charitable organization during a time of critical need can definitely be filed under "good intentions gone wrong."

[tutusue]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Salmoned, you have every right to not donate to something you don't believe in. But the disgust you express for fellow human beings, the majority who have not had the privileges in life that you have, is beyond disturbing. While you haven't always been found beneath my contempt, you certainly are now. And, yes, I know you don't give a rip.

[matapule]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Leo DiCaprio has just donated $1M (that's right, million) to Haiti Earthquake relief. Thank you, Leo.

Although not a movie lover, I am going to attend all of his future pictures!

[StinkyTheGrump]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

I also must fall on the side on not contributing to the Haitian disaster relief effort. I just don't believe it's compassionate or responsible to send relief for a few weeks or months when the end result will be the continuation of an overpopulated, poverty stricken, crime ridden, environmental disaster zone that Haiti has been for decades preceding this latest event. If you support the effort toward maximizing total human protoplasm (and human suffering) and the consequent minimizing of the planet's diversity of life forms, give all you can - I don't.

This is how you treat cattle, not human beings. To advocate letting them suffer and die when they are in immediate need because you think they are overpopulated is destitute of morality and is disgusting.

[salmoned]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

I love double standards.

Nice bites, but what's your point? There is no double standard inherent in those statements. I eat by killing, so do you. Do you not enjoy eating? Or living?

[Amati]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

There are at least 3 threads going about Haiti. Based upon those 3 threads (not just this one, but accumulative of the 3), I have a generic observation, to which I am purposely not attaching names or quotes. My observation is about how we react when horrible things happen around us, or to masses elsewhere:

I wonder if the stress about things of which we have no control (such as the sudden death of hundreds of thousands of humans) brings out frustration and fear. So then maybe we focus on things we can "attack" (like other posters) so that we are not left feeling so out of control of life.

OK, carry on, in all 3 threads.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

it's the death knell of all those species that's drowning out the feeble human wailing.

I personally wish to enjoy every aspect of living, including the requisite killing, not just the 'socially approved' aspects.

I love double standards.

[salmoned]

Re: Haiti earthquake disaster

Okay, so the Dominicans, who know the Haitians best, are evil and don't want to help. I don't buy it, but you can hold that opinion, Craig. We, on the other hand, who haven't been doing much for the Haitians all along, are good because we now respond in this crisis by sending our troops, taking control of their airport and delaying aid flights in favor of more US military flights. We keep aid in the airport compound rather than air lift it to those in need, but we're doing all we can to help. Yeah, I get it.

There's a lot of suffering in the world, most of it not in Haiti - are you doing all you can to relieve it? [That's a rhetorical question] I can only ask, 'Why Haiti and why now?" Aren't you just following the latest media blitz, helping these poor bastards (the media) prove how powerful they are, how much money they can focus on a problem, if only to cover up the few real problems we should be addressing? Wouldn't it be a bore if the media focused on a single issue or two for years, or however long it took, until the issue was resolved? Oh look, earthquake in Haiti, send cash now, move on to next minor sensation. Repeat until dead.

It's not hearing loss, Leo, it's the death knell of all those species (and the constant wailing of ever more human babies being born) that's drowning out the feeble wailing of those suffering Haitians. If you could at least read and quote the whole sentence, you may discover the concept it conveys. It takes 44 days for world population to increase enough to replace Haiti's entire population (about 9 million) - that's a lot of wailing.