couple sues over wrongful twins

[joshuatree]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

Not every person should be a parent

Amen to that.

Or for the nonreligious, Darwinism at work.

[tutusue]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

Once again, I need to bring up the point that the patient claims to have instructed the doctor to implant only one embryo. Without yet knowing if he failed to follow her request, and if so, why, it still looks like she's got the grounds for a malpractice suit.

'Tis why I'd like to know if the twins are identical! If so, and without any statement from the doctor, there's the possibility that the mother's request was granted. Come to think of it, if they are identical there shouldn't be any grounds for a lawsuit as the 2 babies would come from one fertilized egg regardless of how many were implanted.

Moot point if the twins are fraternal.

[joshuatree]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

Obviously, your opinions are formed on the basis of far more information than what I could get from the link provided. I'm finding it hard to carry my part of the discussion without the same evidence, Counsel.

Motion for continuance.

[SusieMisajon]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

She could've chosen to have one removed.

[Composite 2992]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

As Sinjin suggested: give one up for adoption. There are lots of deserving and loving couples who would certainly appreciate the gift.

And as for a lawsuit, they need to be grateful the children are normal. Considering all the things that could go wrong, they should be thankful that all went well. These people just don't have any appreciation for what they have. Undeserving ingrates.

[GeckoGeek]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

Perhaps the patient did say "just one," mere minutes before the procedure. But perhaps she was already under some sedation at that time, and the doctor was not obligated to follow that instruction. We just don't have enough information here.

Yeah, but if she did, that was a poor time to say it. To alter SOP at the last minute. Had it been said before, it might have been granted - after proper paper work. One question I have is what proof is there of her request? It appears to have been verbal. Without witnesses, it's unlikely to hold up.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

Yeah, but if she did, that was a poor time to say it. To alter SOP at the last minute. Had it been said before, it might have been granted - after proper paper work. One question I have is what proof is there of her request? It appears to have been verbal. Without witnesses, it's unlikely to hold up.

I completely agree. As I will keep asking, what's the doctor's take on what happened? Was the patient under sedation when she said this? Was it a topic that had already been discussed (and resolved) in earlier consultations? I suspect that it would have been; that's also SOP.

What shocks me is not the lawsuit itself - we live in such litigious times - but the fact that so many people here are quick to condemn the plaintiffs without knowing the full story.

[salmoned]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

Yup, blasting away in the dark, you may fell yourself with a ricochet...

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

From Reuters:

The court has heard that they signed a consent form to allow two embryos to be implanted, but specifically told their specialist they only wanted one embryo implanted.

The court was told the birth of the twins had created considerable stress within the couple's relationship, but lawyers for the doctor said that almost every couple who had a child went through similar strain.

On loss of consortium:

The Supreme Court in Canberra heard that the couple's relationship suffered from the stress of twin parenthood and that the birth mother had changed after delivering the babies.

"She always said that she had a big heart filled with love," the woman's partner told the court, Australian Associated Press reported.

"I find (now) that she doesn't have the same ability to love that she used to and the same capacity to, I guess, embrace differences and issues as a couple or as a team."

The women also said that her partner had felt angry and desperate once she knew she was carrying twins and that she had hoped one embryo would just go away.

A word on the gross negligence factor, and dem zygotes:

In a case seen as the first of its kind in Australia, the mother and her female partner are suing obstetrician Robert Armellin for more than 400,000 dollars (330,000 US) to cover the cost of raising one of the non-identical children, who are now aged three.

But a lawyer for Armellin said Thursday the woman only said she wanted a single embryo implanted minutes before the procedure, when she was already in the operating theatre.

Earlier she had signed a form indicating that up to two embryos could be transferred, barrister Kim Burke told the Supreme Court in Canberra, acknowledging that staff should have followed up on the last-minute request.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

What shocks me is not the lawsuit itself - we live in such litigious times - but the fact that so many people here are quick to condemn the plaintiffs without knowing the full story.

why does my quick condemnation shock you? I don't need to intellectualize the issue when the larger issue is staring me right in the face. That's akin to searching for some softness in the eyes belonging to a bear ready to pounce.

One day, two healthy little girls are going to grow up and read these transcripts and see the myriad of choices and the depths of testimony that their mothers are providing in order to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that their very existence messed with the head of their bio-mommy to such a degree that she should be awarded damages. That they are cherished is aside from the fact. Their mammas sued for wrongful life. How does one really, really wrap her head around "by the way, I deeply loved you" when she reads those ********* transcripts?

Really, what details do I really need to know? Excerpts of transcripts are already on the web showing how they are proving their case. Despicable. These mothers aren't talking about potential/what-ifs anymore--their daughters are three, they have names, personalities, places in their lives...and still the mothers sue.

[Miulang]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

...One day, two healthy little girls are going to grow up and read these transcripts and see the myriad of choices and the depths of testimony that their mothers are providing in order to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that their very existence messed with the head of their bio-mommy to such a degree that she should be awarded damages. That they are cherished is aside from the fact. Their mammas sued for wrongful life. How does one really, really wrap her head around "by the way, I deeply loved you" when she reads those ********* transcripts?

Really, what details do I really need to know? Excerpts of transcripts are already on the web showing how they are proving their case. Despicable. These mothers aren't talking about potential/what-ifs anymore--their daughters are three, they have names, personalities, places in their lives...and still the mothers sue.

I would hate to be in either of the twins' shoes. Imagine growing up wondering if you were the unwanted twin?
Puts a whole 'nother meaning to the expression, "Mom loves you more."

Miulang

[1stwahine]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

I've been reading.

My hands itching to type dis "I want to Bitxh slap dem two Bitxhes!"

Das all.

Auntie Lynn

[Leo Lakio]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

why does my quick condemnation shock you? I don't need to intellectualize the issue when the larger issue is staring me right in the face.

PM, you asked us, the readers of the thread, to give our take on the issue - but you already had additional information that you had not provided to us, even though you were quoting from it. Based ONLY on the initial link you provided, I was astounded at the condemnations of several posters. If you look closely at my posts, the only point I have made is - again based on the ONLY link you had provided - that it appeared they had grounds for a medical malpractice case. I took no other sides on the issue.

At last, you have offered up additional links - now, I can peruse them and see how it helps to form my opinion. Based on a couple of the excerpts, I have some thoughts now...

The court has heard that they signed a consent form to allow two embryos to be implanted, but specifically told their specialist they only wanted one embryo implanted. ... ... ... But a lawyer for Armellin said Thursday the woman only said she wanted a single embryo implanted minutes before the procedure, when she was already in the operating theatre.
Earlier she had signed a form indicating that up to two embryos could be transferred, barrister Kim Burke told the Supreme Court in Canberra, acknowledging that staff should have followed up on the last-minute request.

Sounds like the medical folks aren't even sure of their case. If she had signed a two-embryo form, the doctor could have argued that the form clearly took precedence over a verbal statement that could have been given under duress or under anaesthesia. Or, having heard her say that she only wanted one implantation, he should have stopped the procedure (if it was safe to do so) to clarify further what she and her partner really wanted. But they are damaging their own case by commenting that they "should have followed up on the last-minute request."

The Supreme Court in Canberra heard that the couple's relationship suffered from the stress of twin parenthood and that the birth mother had changed after delivering the babies.

Yeah, well ... that argument's pretty weak. ALL relationships change when babies enter the picture. It's common for the non-birthing spouse to feel a loss of affection or sense of alienation after the other one gives birth.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

I would hate to be in either of the twins' shoes. Imagine growing up wondering if you were the unwanted twin?
Puts a whole 'nother meaning to the expression, "Mom loves you more."

Miulang

it depends on how they grow up. These girls might always be close, and even closer as a result of their parents (and for all we know, might consider each other their only true kin after they divorce themselves from these sorry-assed women who are a disservice to good motherly lesbians everywhere ggreymbgrumblegrrumblerbleh)

[Bob P]

Re: couple sues over wrongful twins

Courts to date have failed to recognize 'wrongful pregnancy' as a malpractice item - from the persepective of failed birth control etc - as the courts don't want to recognize a child as 'damages'. Negligence requires a duty owed, the duty breached, damages and that the breach is the proximate cause of the damages.

Personally, I think it would be a bad precident for the courts to accept this one - any and all moral and ethical issues aside.