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Molokai Ranch closing operations

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  • joshuatree
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
    Molokai Ranch did not have entitlements to build anything at La'au
    Don't they own La'au?

    Leave a comment:


  • Konaguy
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    I could buy the argument that private property was being infringed upon with Judge Ibarra's Hokulia decision. Oceanside had the entitlements in place and sold 190 lots already. That was a case book example of private property being stolen

    But I have sell the argument that the latter applies to the Molokai Ranch debacle.Molokai Ranch did not have entitlements to build anything at La'au. So legally nothing was taken. The process worked as it supposed to have. The community at large spoke out against developing La'au- case closed.

    Leave a comment:


  • timkona
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    Wasnt talking about Mr. Ritte opposing wind farms. But wind power has been protested before in many places, often by the very same folks who consider themselves environmentalists. Cognitive Dissonance.

    Today on the news I saw the palm trees being cut down at the golf course. Or something like that.

    This whole thread is about the erosion of private property rights. Many folks on the left side of the coin just don't like the notion of private property or property rights.

    No law against cutting down trees on your property, is there?

    Leave a comment:


  • Konaguy
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    Originally posted by timkona View Post
    Too funny. "trying to rescue 'ourselves'. ".......From a jam we created 'ourselves'. $200 million sounds low. And what about those windmills killing birds and making noise. Activists won't go for that. Neither will the HECO protective Dem legislature. Obstructionism is its' own reward.
    News flash Tim, building up to 200 McMansions there is not something that will be sustainable over the long term. With higher gasoline prices and peak oil, it will make projects like these unfeasible.

    The writing is on the wall. You can choose to stick your head in the sand or accept the fact that Hawaii will need to diversify its economic base from real estate, construction, the military and tourism. In short, paving over paradise is not acceptable option over the long term.

    Leave a comment:


  • Random
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    Originally posted by timkona View Post
    Too funny. "trying to rescue 'ourselves'. ".......From a jam we created 'ourselves'. $200 million sounds low. And what about those windmills killing birds and making noise. Activists won't go for that.
    Where'd you hear about Walter Ritte opposing a wind farm?

    Leave a comment:


  • timkona
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    Too funny. "trying to rescue 'ourselves'. ".......From a jam we created 'ourselves'. $200 million sounds low. And what about those windmills killing birds and making noise. Activists won't go for that. Neither will the HECO protective Dem legislature. Obstructionism is its' own reward.

    What's funny is that IF the residents raise enough money, then the land will never be utilized due to the fact that infighting in the controlling group will lead to intransigence. So then folks still won't have jobs, and the land will lie fallow as it has for years. I betcha MRP won't sell to them either. Just more wishful thinking coming from the left side.

    Leave a comment:


  • Konaguy
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    http://starbulletin.com/2008/04/06/news/story06.html

    Meanwhile, the group Ho'i I Ka Pono, led by the Molokai Community Service Council, said it is trying to raise up to $200 million to try and buy the ranch land.

    Karen Holt, executive director of the council, said her group has received a $50 million commitment from alternative energy company UPC Wind and also has received other contributions.

    "There are a lot of people trying to figure out a way to help Molokai," Holt said.

    "We're not waiting for someone to rescue us. We're trying to rescue ourselves."

    Leave a comment:


  • timkona
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    Josh makes the killing point in this little spectacle.

    Dividing the land up into 100 acre parcels will result in even MORE "McMansions" being built, with even less control given to the activists. And it is very unlikely that any unemployed Molokai residents will be able to afford 100 acres. It is ludicrous, to the point of cruelty, to "hope" that a resident of Molokai will be able to afford that much land. On top of that, you can be certain that the public trust and conservation lands will not happen.

    To an activist minded person, all three points are viewed as a victory. Hooray !

    Leave a comment:


  • joshuatree
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
    I think MPL has been doing that for awhile. It is why they were cash positive last fiscal year by doing these individual land sales. Which I feel
    will bring better results. Especially if the residents can buy some of the parcels.
    "Cash positive" didn't necessarily mean MR was profitable. The parent company was cash positive. A quote from your link.

    University of Hawaii accounting professor Roger Debreceny said the term "cash positive" suggests cash flows from operating activities, but added that the term is not formally defined in corporate accounting.

    I think the current development is a sad backfire of whatever the objectives were. Because if you divvy up the land into individual parcels, whoever owns it will develop some of it at the very least. So now you got development all over instead of 20000+ acres set aside.

    Leave a comment:


  • Konaguy
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    Originally posted by joshuatree View Post
    But now they are considering parceling out the land in smaller plots for individual sale. Do you think this will provide better results?
    I think MPL has been doing that for awhile. It is why they were cash positive last fiscal year by doing these individual land sales. Which I feel
    will bring better results. Especially if the residents can buy some of the parcels.

    Leave a comment:


  • joshuatree
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
    I'll let my letter to the editor I posted above speak for itself.

    I will say this though. Yes MPL offered to donate all that land in exchange to develop La'au. But I think the negatives outweighed the positives. Building that many luxury houses would've irreversibly changed Molokai forever.
    But now they are considering parceling out the land in smaller plots for individual sale. Do you think this will provide better results?

    Leave a comment:


  • Konaguy
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    I've been to Molokai twice.

    Listen, I can respect (if not necessarily agree with) anyone taking a "non-negotiable" stance on developing a particular parcel of land, for whatever reason. (i.e. you think its sacred, your girlfriend has sentimental memories, whatever.) But what I don't respect is mischaracterizing someone who happens to stand on the opposite side of the issue.

    So fine, you don't want MPI building 200 homes at La'au Point. Period. Why embellish it with dubious claims that MPI is taking a "my way or the highway" stance when they, in fact, made an offer to donate or preserve almost 51,000 acres, which is about 85 times greater than the total land area MPI wants to develop?

    Can't we stick to the facts in this discussion? Or is slandering and demonizing your opposition the only way for you to make a point?
    I'll let my letter to the editor I posted above speak for itself.

    I will say this though. Yes MPL offered to donate all that land in exchange to develop La'au. But I think the negatives outweighed the positives. Building that many luxury houses would've irreversibly changed Molokai forever.

    Leave a comment:


  • Frankie's Market
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    I've been to Molokai twice.

    Listen, I can respect (if not necessarily agree with) anyone taking a "non-negotiable" stance on developing a particular parcel of land, for whatever reason. (i.e. you think its sacred, your girlfriend has sentimental memories, whatever.) But what I don't respect is mischaracterizing someone who happens to stand on the opposite side of the issue.

    So fine, you don't want MPI building 200 homes at La'au Point. Period. Why embellish it with dubious claims that MPI is taking a "my way or the highway" stance when they, in fact, made an offer to donate or preserve almost 51,000 acres, which is about 85 times greater than the total land area MPI wants to develop?

    Can't we stick to the facts in this discussion? Or is slandering and demonizing your opposition the only way for you to make a point?

    Leave a comment:


  • Konaguy
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    Originally posted by Frankie's Market View Post
    I guess some people are not blinded by emotions as much as they have "selective vision." That is, seeing only what they want to see.
    Have you ever visited Molokai ? I visited there last year with my girlfriend (who is originally from there).

    My view on that proposal is the fact they were try to bribe the community by donating all that land in exchange for Trojan horsing up to 200 McMansions
    at La'au.Which would've negatively and irreversibly changed Molokai forever.

    Leave a comment:


  • Frankie's Market
    replied
    Re: Molokai Ranch closing operations

    Originally posted by Konaguy View Post
    Actually Molokai Ranch has taken more of that tact of "my way or the highway."
    Hmmm, MPI offering to donate 26,000 acres to the Molokai Land Trust and setting aside another 24,950 acres for conservation in exchange for the right to develop some 600 acres is taking a "my way or the highway" approach?

    I guess some people are not blinded by emotions as much as they have "selective vision." That is, seeing only what they want to see.

    Leave a comment:

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