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The Pseudoephedrine Menace

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  • The Pseudoephedrine Menace

    Pseudoephedrine. It's an effective and popular decongestant. It's been the key part of well-known cold medicines for years. But, like many over-the-counter drugs, it can be abused. On its own, it can become a stimulant. It's also an ingredient in crystal methamphetamine, a drug whose scourge is decimating communities across the country, including and especially Hawaii.

    So new federal rules are coming that control the sale of drugs containing pseudoephedrine, slipped into the USA PATRIOT Act and effective Sept. 30.

    Access to pseudoephedrine-containing drugs must be restricted (i.e. kept behind the register or pharmacy counter). The amount of those drugs that can be purchased will be limited. And ID will have to be shown and a log sheet signed.

    Because the law isn't "live" yet, stores are at different stages of implementation. In the past month, I've noticed the following.

    If you go to Star Market, all the drugs are still out on the shelves, and when I picked up two packs of Sudafed gelcaps, no one batted an eye. Maybe the gelcaps don't contain pseudoephedrine, though. I'm not sure.

    If you go to Costco, all the drugs are still out on shelves, but you're informed at the register that you can only buy one package (per visit? per day? not sure).

    If you go to Longs, the only thing you can find on the shelves are little cards that say, "Take this to the pharmacy." You grab one, stand in line, and ask for it. You're told up front, "You can buy only one." You show your ID, and sign a log. Presumably, their networked system will keep me from just going to another Longs for more.

    I actually went to Longs, first, so I was a bit confused after finding no rigamarole at the other stores. Until Sept. 30, it looks like businesses at the stores that implement this law earlier will probably lose business... not because of illicit drug makers, but because it's a pain in the butt!

  • #2
    Re: The Pseudoephedrine Menace

    This is among the stupidest things in the world. I got carded at Longs in Kapalama, where my Ny-Quil was right there on the shelf with all the other ice-in-waiting. What a crock.
    But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
    GrouchyTeacher.com

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    • #3
      Re: The Pseudoephedrine Menace

      The restrictions have already kicked in up here. Not only do you have to take one of those cards from the shelf up to the clerk and the clerk has to fetch the decongestants for you, but before she can ring it up, you have to provide an ID and she has to write your ID information into a book! Even though they go through all this, it's not computerized, so I don't know how that's supposed to stop the meth cooks from continuing to hit all the different supermarkets and drug stores every now and then (as long as there's no established pattern) and get away with it. All this law is doing is slowing them down, not stopping them from cooking. Maybe the intent of the law is to keep meth cooking out of the neighborhoods, but once US access to decongestants really clamps down, you can bet that the stuff will start coming in from other parts of the world where decongestants are still sold on open shelves. This solution is like a bandaid; it doesn't address the whole issue of meth addiction. Make it harder for the criminals to get what they want, and they get more violent...

      Miulang
      Last edited by Miulang; May 6, 2006, 06:44 AM.
      "Americans believe in three freedoms. Freedom of speech; freedom of religion; and the freedom to deny the other two to folks they don`t like.” --Mark Twain

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      • #4
        Re: The Pseudoephedrine Menace

        Originally posted by scrivener
        This is among the stupidest things in the world. I got carded at Longs in Kapalama, where my Ny-Quil was right there on the shelf with all the other ice-in-waiting. What a crock.
        As I just discovered, NyQuil actually reformulated recently to drop pseudoephedrine for another drug. Lots of long-time NyQuil fans appreciate that it saves them from these hassles, but generally feel the new recipe is less effective.

        Still, the fact that I wasted fifteen minutes at the Mililani Longs when I could've just walked up to the register fifty yards away at the Mililani Star Market makes me shake my head.

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        • #5
          Re: The Pseudoephedrine Menace

          Ny-Quil may have a new formula, but I was still asked for ID and my info was still typed into a computer. I don't need that, and neither does anyone else. It's none of the government's damn business what kind of symptoms I have or what I'm taking for them or where I'm purchasing them. I resent being treated this way without probable cause, and I resent even more the waste of resources stupid laws like this have, especially when they will have NO effect on the so-called "ice epidemic."

          Decreasing supply (as if that were really going to happen because of this law) is not going to decrease demand. It will probably increase drug-related property crime.
          But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
          GrouchyTeacher.com

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          • #6
            Re: The Pseudoephedrine Menace

            I worked in a hardware store a while back. At the time, Hawaii's ice epidemic was just starting. The newpapers listed the ingredients used to make the stuff, including many that can be readily purchased in - yes - a hardware store.

            There were several creepy looking (and very skinny) guys who would come in and repeatedly purchased acetone and denatured alcohol, which was listed as some those agents.

            I contemplated calling authorities or at least telling the manager, but instead looked the other way thinking I was over-reacting or had the wrong assumption. I mentioned it to a few coworkers and they just jokingly laughed it off.

            If I only knew then how many lives have been ruined by these criminals.
            sigpic The Tasty Island

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            • #7
              Re: The Pseudoephedrine Menace

              Sorry to go off-topic here, but those criminals didn't make anybody buy their product. You can make all kinds of destructive stuff with any number of readily-available items (as The Anarchist's Cookbook made plain). This does not mean that the items should be monitored, regulated, rationed, or otherwise made illegal. It's already illegal to set fire to property; we don't have to make it illegal to to purchase matches. It's already illegal to manufacture crystal meth; it's unnecessary (and unfair) to regulate the sale of the crap that goes into making it.
              But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
              GrouchyTeacher.com

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              • #8
                Re: The Pseudoephedrine Menace

                Originally posted by scrivener
                It's already illegal to manufacture crystal meth; it's unnecessary (and unfair) to regulate the sale of the crap that goes into making it.
                Only when it's turned into Crystal Meth does it become CRAP.

                Otherwise, those chemicals have the useful purpose of (respectively) decongesting a cold, cleaning up fiberglass and thinning lacquer or epoxy paints.

                One way to monitor the purchase of potentially dangerous consumer products that can be turned into weapons such as bombs or illegal drugs would be to require that they are purchased by CREDIT CARD only. No cash. That way the FBI and local police can track it real time. Then investigate, get the warrant and make busts REAL QUICK.
                sigpic The Tasty Island

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                • #9
                  Re: The Pseudoephedrine Menace

                  If the government thinks I'm up to something, it needs to go before a judge and demonstrate probable cause; after that, it can track just about anything I purchase or do. I'm fine with that.

                  But until I've given the government a reason to believe I might be doing something wrong, it has no business going through my transactions, looking at my purchases, reading my email, or listening in on my phone calls. That's what "innocent until proven guilty" means.

                  We don't need to live in a place where the government is regulating everything we do; sure, we might be safer, but safer from what? Not from a government that can do whatever it wants whenever it wants without the say-so of the citizenry at whose pleasure it exists in the first place. No thank you. I read Brave New World and want no part of it. I'd rather fear my neighbor than fear my government.
                  But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                  GrouchyTeacher.com

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                  • #10
                    Re: The Pseudoephedrine Menace

                    Only Miulang and Scrivener understand the deeper issues of prohibitive laws, as far as I can tell.

                    This is what my Grandpa taught me. A long time ago, some well meaning "people" thought that it would be a good idea to control/prohibit a popular product that was readily available to the public in unlimited quantities. What they didn't realize was that the demand for this product was larger than the resources available to prohibit its production and distrubution. The product itself did cause harm in some cases, but as a percentage of use, the harm caused was minimal, and many were delighted by its use. By prohibiting the products, a crimewave was born. The harm caused from the crime wave was horrendous, pitting family member against family member in some instances. It was a terrible time in America, and much blood was shed.

                    The moral of the story is "You can't stop me."

                    Can you guess what the subject of the narrative is?

                    A) Alcohol
                    B) Fossil Fuels
                    C) Methamphetimine
                    D) Cigarettes
                    E) All of the above, and then some

                    Many people in society simply don't have the cogitive or historical ability to logically distill this issue. (pun intended)
                    FutureNewsNetwork.com
                    Energy answers are already here.

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                    • #11
                      Re: The Pseudoephedrine Menace

                      Originally posted by pzarquon
                      As I just discovered, NyQuil actually reformulated recently to drop pseudoephedrine for another drug.
                      I found this out first-hand recently... I was sick, and popped some NyQuil before bed.

                      Normally, it'll knock me out right away, and when I wake up in the morning I usually feel much better.

                      Not this time.

                      I had trouble falling asleep, and kept waking up through the night. I also noticed my cough and stuffed nose were still there.

                      That's the last time I buy NyQuil.

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                      • #12
                        Re: The Pseudoephedrine Menace

                        You know, come to think of it, I didn't by Ny-Quil, I bought that Longs-label stuff, which used to have the same stuff as Ny-Quil, but maybe now it's more like Ny-Quil than Ny-Quil is. I'll have to investigate. 'Cause that stuff worked like a dream (pun intended).
                        But I'm disturbed! I'm depressed! I'm inadequate! I GOT IT ALL! (George Costanza)
                        GrouchyTeacher.com

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                        • #13
                          Re: The Pseudoephedrine Menace

                          Originally posted by timkona
                          The moral of the story is "You can't stop me." --- Can you guess what the subject of the narrative is?
                          A) Alcohol
                          B) Fossil Fuels
                          C) Methamphetimine
                          D) Cigarettes
                          E) All of the above, and then some
                          How about FIREARMS? If so, then we'd be discussing the ATF, which would be worthy of a thread in itself.

                          Speaking about prohibition...

                          One theory has it that the eradication of marijuana (green harvest) in Hawaii led users to resort to more accessible, cheaper drugs such as meth and extacy.

                          If you look at the timeline and trend of Hawaii's prosecutions involving violence, property crime and drug abuse in the past 20 years, that's a very convincing theory.

                          If we only had a choice of the lesser of two evils, grow back the weeds.
                          sigpic The Tasty Island

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                          • #14
                            Re: The Pseudoephedrine Menace

                            The way I understood it was that only product that was all pseudowhatzit was to be kept behind the counter. Multisymptom meds containing P were sold as usual. Something to do with the content of other meds made it impossible to filter out. Maybe the knuckleheads are getting more sophisticated? Now I'm curious and gotta go back to Longs for a look.

                            Pomai added firearms. Now y'all know how law abiding firearms owners/collectors feel. Don't get me going on the BATFE and their latest antics.

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                            • #15
                              Re: The Pseudoephedrine Menace

                              If you were to buy the New Formula Sudafed you'll find that it doesn't contain the key ingredient pseudoephedrine nor do the generic store brands.

                              Here on the Big Island the restrictive sale of the stuff made for one frustrating evening as I needed to get the Hi-Octane Sudafed for my ailing wife. Even myself I need that level of decongestant as I have chronic sinusitus. It was a Sunday evening around 7pm and not one pharmacy in Hilo was open for me to purchase the stuff. WalMart said that when the pharmacy closes, they keep a limited quantity behind registers 19 and 20 here at the Hilo store. That limited supply ran out earlier that day, so no Sudafed for my wife.

                              The next morning I went to Safeway and waited for the pharmacy to open and promptly handed that little placard when the windows opened up. And yes you have to show your drivers license and sign for receipt of the genuine article.
                              Life is what you make of it...so please read the instructions carefully.

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