Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

[kani-lehua]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

pela no! that's certainly it!

[Random]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

Confidentiality laws probably prevent the school from releasing that kind of info. Chances are fair that many members of the school community, including the school's own faculty, may never officially be told what the disciplinary action is. Blame our litigious society.

Can the Lanikai neighorhood sue them (the parents of the 4 St. Louis boys, if not the boys themselves) for damages?

[Amati]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

Yes, the adult brings his history of problems into the news story. But according to tonight's news (FOX news channel 2 at 10pm), one of the youth is having a bit of additional trouble also, he was just arrested for solicitation of a prostitute.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

I would think St. Louis High School shouldn't be involved at all, I mean it didn't happen during school right? What if the kids were public school students and this happened. Is the DOE mandated to do something about it? I doubt it. Remember these kids acted on their own time, not during school hours or during a school-sanctioned event. St. Louis HS has nothing to do with this incident!

If someone worked for Long's Drugs and got arrested for somethng while off the clock would you demand that the employer reprimand that employee?

Why should your employer or school be expected to do anything when that employee/student is acting on their own time?

[Adri]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

The families of the students involved should be looked to first, of course. But I think the reason most people look to Saint Louis High School in connection with these incidents that occurred outside of school is that the school system has, for most people, the largest influence on the development of minors aside from families. In the case at hand, I think the many in the public would look to any high school, public or private, to see how the high school would address the delinquent behavior of its students but I believe Saint Louis High School heavily advertises how attending their high school develops boys into gentlemen and therefore there is even more emphasis on what Saint Louis may be doing or not doing that these boys are definitely not on the path to being gentlemen. As to why the schools should be involved ~ I think that has to do at least in part with the concept of "in loco parentis" (literally "in the place of a parent" in which some person or entity takes on some of the functions of a parent). For many years, educational institutions (both public and private although private educational institutions have applied it more broadly since there is no governmental mandate that students be allowed to attend private schools) have used in loco parentis to justify actions pertaining to students for the students' conduct, in or out of school, that for any reason disrupts the school's interest or the education provided by the schools or the reputation of the schools. It's the reason schools (again, especially private schools) can apply a "code of conduct" for its students and can punish students for violating that code of conduct even if the violation is outside of the school. Since the schools *may* punish students for such actions, at least some people would be interested in knowing if the schools *will* punish these students for their actions. And as unfair as it may be, if the school fails to discipline these students (I am not saying that the school isn't going to discipline these students, just if they don't) then some in the public will see that as somehow condoning the students' actions or failing to recognize the seriousness of the bad conduct.

As for Craig's employer scenario ~ yes, in many cases people do want to know what the employers are going to do about employees who get arrested (especially if the arrest garners a lot of public attention) because the employees' conduct reflects upon their employers to some degree (at the very least a sort of "you guys had the bad judgment to hire or keep employing someone like that?"). Especially in cases of "crimes of moral turpitude", which according to wiki are "conduct that is considered contrary to community standards of justice, honesty, or good morals". Sometimes not even a crime but what is seen as a moral failing (by the standards of that community).

[kani-lehua]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

I would think St. Louis High School shouldn't be involved at all, I mean it didn't happen during school right? What if the kids were public school students and this happened. Is the DOE mandated to do something about it? I doubt it. Remember these kids acted on their own time, not during school hours or during a school-sanctioned event. St. Louis HS has nothing to do with this incident!

If someone worked for Long's Drugs and got arrested for somethng while off the clock would you demand that the employer reprimand that employee?

Why should your employer or school be expected to do anything when that employee/student is acting on their own time?

st. louis is saying that their conduct code applies on and off campus.

regarding the employer/employee scenario: craig, i know lots of people including family that work/worked for long's. let's say that the employee was arrested and/or convicted for dui and that person was employed as a forklift operator at the warehouse? what if an employee was arrested/convicted for drugs? no can, craig.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

If someone worked for Long's Drugs and got arrested for somethng while off the clock would you demand that the employer reprimand that employee?

In the case of a private company, it is not for the general public to dictate hiring/firing decisions. But there could very well be consequences for a company not taking any action against an employee convicted of a crime, even if the incident occurred outside the workplace.

Kani-lehua's example of a forklift operator being arrested for DUI is a good one. Retaining such an employee could very easily lead to jacked-up insurance/workman's compensation rates for Long's. Why should the entire company suffer financially for the stupidity/selfishness of a few individuals? I don't know about you, but I believe in individual accountability.

And then there's the public relations aspect. I don't care if it's something as "minor" as shoplifting. I wouldn't want to do business with any bank that knowingly hires people who have had a criminal history of theft. And I know I'm not the only person who feels that way. Once again, this is yet another example of a company possibly suffering adverse effects from the criminal behavior of an employee, even though it may have occurred outside the workplace.

Why should your employer or school be expected to do anything when that employee/student is acting on their own time?

As Adri pointed out, these kind of off-campus incidents can hurt the public image of an entire school. The magnitude of the link between the perpetrators and the school is increased as this incident involved not one, but four students from the same school. If the school took no action on this, what kind of a message does this send to the other students? What kind of a message does this send to parents of prospective students, who are looking for a school that will instill positive values and character traits in their sons?

Here's the school's mission statement, taken right off their website.

The Mission of Saint Louis School is to educate and challenge students of various religious, ethnic and economic backgrounds that they may achieve a quality education and become gentlemen in character, reaching individual potential through the Catholic Marianist tradition of spiritual, academic, physical and emotional maturity.

If you ask me, having the school "turn the other way" when it comes to incidents like this would make a mockery of this mission statement. It could even lead to more outrageous incidents in the future, if the other boys think that they can get away with no reprisals from the school just because it didn't happen "on campus."

[scrivener]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

Craig's right: It's weird for the public to demand some kind of disciplinary action, but I don't think that's happened. As has already been pointed out, if the school decides to do so on its own, that's totally understandable. What if one of those students was eighteen and having a relationship with one of the teachers, outside of school? Sure, it's outside of school, but you can bet there would be some kind of action by the school, and it makes complete sense that there would.

[Random]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

Craig's right: It's weird for the public to demand some kind of disciplinary action, but I don't think that's happened. As has already been pointed out, if the school decides to do so on its own, that's totally understandable. What if one of those students was eighteen and having a relationship with one of the teachers, outside of school? Sure, it's outside of school, but you can bet there would be some kind of action by the school, and it makes complete sense that there would.

Yeah, but I can't helped but wonder what kind of [appropriate] punishment they're giving them.

For all we know, this is just PR repair spin on the part of St. Louis school administration, and I'm not saying this because it is a private school. It is certainly not the first nor will be the last. So, did they get hit in the hands with a proverbial "yardstick/paddle" or a "chopstick."

[kani-lehua]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

when we needed "discipline" at this catholic grade school i attended, the nuns would make us kneel on the cement or would get a wooden ruler, the one with that thin piece of metal strip and crack us on the knuckles with it.

[tutusue]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

Yeah, but I can't helped but wonder what kind of [appropriate] punishment they're giving them.[...]

I heard on the news last night that punishment is community service (can't remember how many hours) and a 2 day suspension. The student who got caught soliciting a prostitute will likely get additional punishment.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

I heard on the news last night that punishment is community service (can't remember how many hours) and a 2 day suspension. The student who got caught soliciting a prostitute will likely get additional punishment.

Hopefully, that "community service" will specifically include work to clean up and repair the damage caused by vandals in Lanikai. (Even damage they themselves did not cause.) At the very least, some kind of work/service should be performed in the Lanikai area.

[Adri]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

I do think an appropriate punishment would be to have them clean up the mess they made plus any other cleaning that needs to be done in the community. I also think that people caught graffiti -ing should have to clean up their own graffiti but I've heard that kids caught doing graffiti aren't made to clean up their own graffiti to spare them embarrassment. If they do things like egging people's homes and graffiti, they should be embarrassed.

[timkona]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

Imagine being held to a higher standard of behavior in this day and age, where the soft shell approach has replaced old skul discipline. People wonder why kids behavior is getting worse, and why test scores decline. Answer is simple folks. 35 years of slackening standards and the erosion of true discipline.

Put the paddle back in the classroom, and I betcha test scores improve, and behavior problems decline.

[PapaleKea]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

I wouldn't want to do business with any bank that knowingly hires people who have had a criminal history of theft. And I know I'm not the only person who feels that way. Once again, this is yet another example of a company possibly suffering adverse effects from the criminal behavior of an employee, even though it may have occurred outside the workplace.

You'd be amazed how few companies do background checks even for sensitive jobs. I know of one upscale waterfront condo association that hired a convicted felon (forgery, theft) as a resident manager with full access to the association's assets and many of the owners' keys. Idiots!