Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

I don't think it's fair to hold them responsible for all of the other incidents, unless they were responsible.

Well, when you commit a crime, does restitution alone always resolve everything? The fact of the matter is,... no. People who are guilty of embezzlement often have to serve time in prison and pay a fine, even if they are able to pay back every cent they stole. So those boys need to understand this concept. Better they understand it as boys having to clean up and repair some damage beyond what they were caught doing than learning about it as adults and doing some hard time at Halawa, if you ask me.

The kid who went to the prostitute directly after the brush with Mr. Jervis may have more going on than will be turned around by punishment alone.

I think that boy's entire family has some serious issues. That he couldn't stay out of serious trouble with the law for more than a week says volumes about his parents.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

I think that boy's entire family has some serious issues. That he couldn't stay out of serious trouble with the law for more than a week says volumes about his parents.

Perhaps but sometimes there is a psychological/psychiatric element that goes far beyond factors such as weak parenting.
Of course I know nothing about the boy and his family but the kid could be a budding sociopath. A sociopath is quite a sight to see---no conscience, no fear of repercussions (he'll lie his way out of them, most times), no use for people except for what they can provide for him. The ability to lie like a rug without missing a beat. Charming, manipulative, and definitely a person to avoid.
I had the dubious delight of working as a charge nurse in a very intense county child and adolescent psych unit (locked unit and most of the kids were court remands) for about a year. It was a very enlightening experience. I didn't want to make it my career but I'm not sorry I did it---I learned a lot. Some of the kids I worked with were anti-social/sociopath types and it was truly amazing and sometimes a little scary to see them in action.
Here's a site that describes the traits of a sociopath. Interesting:

http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~mcafee/Bin/sb.html

[tutusue]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

[...]A sociopath is quite a sight to see---no conscience, no fear of repercussions (he'll lie his way out of them, most times), no use for people except for what they can provide for him. The ability to lie like a rug without missing a beat. Charming, manipulative, and definitely a person to avoid.[...]... a little scary to see them in action.
Here's a site that describes the traits of a sociopath. Interesting:

http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~mcafee/Bin/sb.html

I've had the misfortune of butting heads with more than a couple of sociopaths in my lifetime. They're human hurricanes and wreak havoc with every breath they take. Trying to take one down and get the law to recognize that "there's something wrong with this picture" is unbelievably frustrating. I wish something one heckuva lot better for the St. Louis students and their parents. But, who knows, maybe you're on to something, WORN.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

I've had the misfortune of butting heads with more than a couple of sociopaths in my lifetime. They're human hurricanes and wreak havoc with every breath they take. Trying to take one down and get the law to recognize that "there's something wrong with this picture" is unbelievably frustrating. I wish something one heckuva lot better for the St. Louis students and their parents. But, who knows, maybe you're on to something, WORN.

I can think of a few Sociopaths on this board. Unwilling to bend and see other's points of view. Sometimes I think I'm borderline clinical when it comes to that but I do bend and try to come to some consensus when a stalemate occurs.

BUT there are those who will never compromise and will never see it any other way and will destroy all influence of opposition until they're done. You know who you are...cuz you're the only ones that are upset over that statement.

[tutusue]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

I can think of a few Sociopaths on this board. Unwilling to bend and see other's points of view. Sometimes I think I'm borderline clinical when it comes to that but I do bend and try to come to some consensus when a stalemate occurs.

BUT there are those who will never compromise and will never see it any other way and will destroy all influence of opposition until they're done. You know who you are...cuz you're the only ones that are upset over that statement.

It goes waaaaay beyond being inflexible and unwilling to compromise. Trust me! Sociopathic behavior is a medical problem with a multitude of completely unacceptable behaviors along with some acceptable, albeit manipulatively motivated, behaviors.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

It goes waaaaay beyond being inflexible and unwilling to compromise. Trust me! Sociopathic behavior is a medical problem with a multitude of completely unacceptable behaviors along with some acceptable, albeit manipulatively motivated, behaviors.

Sue...like I said...the hard part is when you as a victim get's flamed by one of them

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

It goes waaaaay beyond being inflexible and unwilling to compromise. Trust me! Sociopathic behavior is a medical problem with a multitude of completely unacceptable behaviors along with some acceptable, albeit manipulatively motivated, behaviors.

You hit it right on the head, Sue. It looks like you've indeed dealt with at least one in your lifetime. The disorder has nothing to do with everyday hard-headedness, crankiness, or being a just plain miserable person. It goes way beyond that. I might characterize it as devious, self-serving, malicious, manipulative, and totally without conscience.
Craig? I'm not sure what you meant by "borderline clinical" but if you mean Borderline Personality Disorder I'm quite sure that you're not even close to being in that category!
Don't even get me started on Borderline Personality Disorder patients. They overlap the traits of a sociopath and add a bunch of their own. You simply have not lived until you've been in charge of three teenaged BPD girls who are plotting to kill you. No joke.
I do agree that we have at least one full-blown sociopath on this forum, however.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

it was a joke

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

it was a joke

Oh.....

[kani-lehua]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

well, looks like the boys will not be charged with any crime relating to the egg throwing incident. however, they did offer the student body an "apology".

[Jim75]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

I think that boy's entire family has some serious issues.

That's a possibility and in many cases likely. Frequently there is some kind of turmoil or difficulty in a youth's family. Often the parents have their own struggles/baggage/emotional pain. Through family dynamics, that are a little long to describe here, one of the children is assigned and accepts (via processes primarily outside of the family's direct awareness) the role of acting out the pain of the family system. This child becomes the scapegoat, black sheep, or what has been called the 'identified patient'. There are too many potentially contributing factors to list here, but a few examples might include marital discord between the parents, history of traumatic experience of one or both parents (war trauma, rape, childhood abuse), parental addiction, chronic physical or mental illness, general chaos, expressions of rage, inconsistent parenting practices, etc.

Sometimes the child has experiences that have occured independent of family situations. They might have their own history of abuse or trauma that occured completely indendent of any family contribution. The world can be tricky and people who are totally human can find themselves thrust into very challenging lives. My old professor Max used to say "Given what a person has learned and what they haven't learned, how else would they be?" Good old Max. Simple but profound.

Do people make bad choices? Of course. But there are reasons why they do. At this point, I've had the opportunity to talk to many, many people about their lives, on an intimate level. I haven't always liked, condoned, or agreed with their choices, but not once, not ever, have I not been able to understand after I have enough information.

If a person was lucky enough to have had good parenting, it's a blessing, but not an achievement. Then there's the expression 'It's not what you achieve. It's what you overcome.' The playing field isn't level. Let's hope for a good outcome for all of them.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

The playing field isn't level. Let's hope for a good outcome for all of them.

Yeah tell me about it. At Kalani High School when they finally laid down a nice football field and track, we found out to our horror that the makai side of the football field was actually four feet lower than the mauka side. No wonder our football team sucked big time.

But in real life playing fields are always stacked against us. But with some encouragement and solid advice, even Kalani will one day have a great football team!!!...yeah right

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

Perhaps but sometimes there is a psychological/psychiatric element that goes far beyond factors such as weak parenting.
Of course I know nothing about the boy and his family but the kid could be a budding sociopath.

I respect whatever professional knowledge you may have accumulated through your career experiences. I don't doubt for a moment the value of your personal insights into the behavior of diagnosed sociopaths. I think some interesting give-and-take has taken place regarding this topic.

But with all that said, I think it is important to take a couple of steps backward and keep this in mind re: the boy under discussion here. Unless someone here has personal and thorough knowledge about this boy's history and background, it needs to be said that one cannot make such a medical/psychological diagnosis based on these two incidents alone.

Even if the assumption is true that the boy in question has some sort of emotional/psychological disorder, I still don't think that gets his parents off the hook. The boy is a minor and his parents/guardians are still legally responsible for his actions. Likewise, they would also be responsible for making sure that he receives the proper supervision, treatment, and care that is needed for his condition.

But I think we're venturing far off the main trail of this discussion by delving into these psychopath theories. Until any authoritative information is released that would give creedence to such a theory, I would still put forward the idea that the boy's troubles are likely attributable to factors like lack of adequate parental supervision, domestic issues at home, and peer pressure. Granted, those factors may be more mundane and prosaic in nature. But more often than not, these are the most common issues that come into play whenever young people get into trouble. Ask any school teacher or counselor.

[WindwardOahuRN]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

I respect whatever professional knowledge you may have accumulated through your career experiences. I don't doubt for a moment the value of your personal insights into the behavior of diagnosed sociopaths. I think some interesting give-and-take has taken place regarding this topic.

But with all that said, I think it is important to take a couple of steps backward and keep this in mind re: the boy under discussion here. Unless someone here has personal and thorough knowledge about this boy's history and background, it needs to be said that one cannot make such a medical/psychological diagnosis based on these two incidents alone.

Even if the assumption is true that the boy in question has some sort of emotional/psychological disorder, I still don't think that gets his parents off the hook. The boy is a minor and his parents/guardians are still legally responsible for his actions. Likewise, they would also be responsible for making sure that he receives the proper supervision, treatment, and care that is needed for his condition.

But I think we're venturing far off the main trail of this discussion by delving into these psychopath theories. Until any authoritative information is released that would give creedence to such a theory, I would still put forward the idea that the boy's troubles are likely attributable to factors like lack of adequate parental supervision, domestic issues at home, and peer pressure. Granted, those factors may be more mundane and prosaic in nature. But more often than not, these are the most common issues that come into play whenever young people get into trouble. Ask any school teacher or counselor.

Sorry if my post was misconstrued---in no way was I seeking to perform an armchair diagnosis of the boy in question. There is absolutely no way I would be so presumptious as to think that was appropriate or even remotely possible. Just musing as to possible reasons for such behavior, as I guess were those who might attribute the behavior to other causes. Although an anti-social/sociopath disorder might be a less common cause of such behavior it wouldn't be unheard of.
I suppose I waxed a little clinical because of what I've seen. Bear in mind that the huge majority of kids I worked with were court remands. In most cases they had been arrested or had displayed grossly anti-social behavior and were ordered to be confined in a locked psychiatric unit for thirty days for evaluation. Some were from lousy homes, some were not. All were in deep trouble.
Here's hoping that the root of the Lanikai egg-tosser's behavior is a little less ominous than that DSM-IV diagnosis.
Clinical diagnosis or just sowing some wild oats---either one is merely an explanation, not an excuse. Nobody gets a pass on accountability.

[Nords]

Re: Former Bishop Estate trustee busted

Clinical diagnosis or just sowing some wild oats---either one is merely an explanation, not an excuse. Nobody gets a pass on accountability.

I've lost track-- are we referring to the teens or to Jervis?