Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

[Amati]

I've about had it with the sense of entitlement that some non-achievers show. For example, excerpts from an article in today's online StarBulletin:

http://www.starbulletin.com/news/200...tml?page=1&c=y

Shelter to charge rent

Occupants of Next Step will be required to pay $60 per month.

• Homeless people living in the state's Kakaako emergency shelter will be charged $60 a month beginning Nov. 1.
• "In anticipation of state budget cuts ... they wanted us to pick up some of the expenses," he said, adding that shelter occupants were informed about a month ago. Occupants will be required to pay $60 on the first day of each month, with a 10-day grace period, to sleep at the shelter, which is open from 5:30 p.m. to 8:30 a.m. and provides dinner and health services.
• Families will have to pay $60 per unit, Langi said.
• [Vxxx Txxx], 40, who has been at the shelter with his wife and three children for six months, said he hopes living conditions will improve at the warehouse once the rent kicks in, including more services like counseling and case management.

What?? 5 people x 30 meals @ $60/month is about 40 cents per meal. And that is tossing in FREE lodging and FREE showers and FREE electricity, and health services. But nooooooo, he wants want "more services like counseling and case management", too. Give me a break. Am I the only one who's is irked when they look at the tax deductions on their paycheck, then read an article like the one noted above?

[Seeking Penance]

Re: Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

I've about had it with the sense of entitlement that some non-achievers show. For example, excerpts from an article in today's online StarBulletin:

http://www.starbulletin.com/news/200...tml?page=1&c=y

thanks for sharing amati - frustrating as it is for both sides - here are my thoughts - posted it in the comments section as well on the start bulletin site.

*****

"In anticipation of state budget cuts ... they wanted us to pick up some of the expenses,"

If it’s budget cuts they are anticipating; they should start from within the Lingle Administration…work their way down to majority of the overpaid Senators and Legislators…overpaid Department Head state level government workers.

It amazes me that my tax dollars is at work to allow Lingle’s high paying administration propose a fee let alone anticipate budget cuts; forgetting budget cut anticipation should start from within Lingle’s administration.
I only wonder how much of my tax dollar is going towards Lingle’s administration who came up with this brilliant idea of proposing and anticipating budget cuts.

A question to Lingle’s administration: Have you checked your wallets or purses lately if my wasted tax dollars are in there crisply folded; and ask yourself every time you spend my tax dollars if you should ever spit another brilliant idea with budget cuts and where start?

**********

"Most people would rather live here without paying rent," he said. "If we are going to pay rent, a lot of things should be changing. But we got to be happy with what we've got. We rather not be on the street."


Understanding that our economy is at it’s lowest. Compassion and compromising is two sided. Understanding the less fortunate is difficult to decipher. Who am I to say; I understand yet relate to financial inadequacies of any individual or family?

It is impossible to ask for something you absolutely have no control over. What you should ask yourself or ask about on the “THINGS” or “CHANGES” you so desire; is helping the tax payers let alone the agencies and/or the government the allowable chance to help them help you by not asking for more than what you cannot receive.

Make us tax payers, agencies and/or the government happy by limiting what that $60.00 can and will do for you and your family. Compassion is the key here not greed on both sides.

It is disheartening finding anyone homeless needing shelter; yet asking for more than a handful is like asking Lingle’s administration for another brilliant idea on proposing and anticipating budget cuts excluding their over paid administration and politicians alike.

**********

Institute Executive Director Connie Mitchell said shelters nationwide have been billing users to offset rising costs of everything from food to electricity and prepare them to budget for rent once they leave. "It is something that really does promote a sense of self-sufficiency," she said yesterday.


Brilliant idea Connie!! You should take time out and actually shake Lingle’s hand let alone share your ideas with most of Lingle’s incompetent Administration maybe something good will come of it and not just hot air blowing out.

[timkona]

Re: Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

I've about had it with the sense of entitlement that some non-achievers show.

Get used to it. Looks like the Libs are coming on strong this year. I, myself, am looking forward to 8 years of rest. When taxes, and entitlements, become so great, seems easier to me to just go on the dole. Besides, what kind of mean spirited person would require anybody to actually work, and pay, their way through life. It's not their fault that they dropped out of school. It's not their fault that they are drug abusers. It's a medical condition. And we need to provide them with good doctors, and psychiatrists, to cure them. It's not their fault that they don't like to get up early. Or go to bed early. Or work a long, hard, hot day in the tropics. It's not their fault that they did not save any money when they were young. It's not their fault that activism has created so many costs associated with development that a simple home costs over $400k in Hawaii. It's not their fault. And the best way to teach them that lesson is to give them free stuff like shelter and food and medical treatment.

Amati, your lack of compassion and understanding just does not jive with the modern-day sense of entitlement. Barock and roll baby.

glurg

[matapule]

Re: Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

Okay, now you've done it! Matapule is pi$$ed off. Where is my war club? Shame on you, to all of you who are so cold hearted, self centered, and selfish. Where are your virtues of love and charity? Shame on you! I am embarrassed for you!

Who of you want to go live on the street? Who wants to push a grocery cart around picking up tin cans? Who wants to go for weeks without a bath. Who wants to know where their next meal is coming from?

Most of those in the shelters or on the street have emotional, mental, psychological, and financial problems. We can thank our "beloved" President Ronald Reagan, that "great patriot", for initiating the closure of social welfare programs that provided care for those who could not care for themselves. Reagan said it was up to individuals and churches and community organizations to provide care for those with problems, not the Federal Government. That has happened to some extent but there are still too many people who bitch and gripe about what little public assistance is available to the homeless.

I am a liberal and proud of it. A liberal to me is someone who cares about their extended ohana as much as they care for themselves. I do not apologize for being what I am. You can try to make liberal a dirty word and that is what the Neo-Cons are doing very effectively right now. But I would rather die knowing that I did everything I could for my neighbor rather than die knowing that I pinched and grubbed every penny I owned. So if you want to label people, then label me and bring it on. Matapule is now in attack mode.

What really ruffles my ta'uvala is the $700B welfare we have given to the greedy, slovenly fatcats in the economy, but we resent any kind of assistance to those less fortunate than ourselves. Yes, there are some who take advantage of the welfare system, but I would rather err on the side of being overly generous than not meeting the needs of those who need it most. No system is perfect and we can never eleminate the cheats, scowflaws, and sycophants. All you have to do is look at the wealthiest people in the world and you have the profile for a cheat, scowflaw, and sycophant. The amount we spend on social welfare programs is just a drop in the bucket compared to the amount that we are ripped off by the wealthy. I am in favor of getting people off the welfare roles when they are capable of caring for themselves, but it is going to take tax money to weed them out and re-educated.

What is obscene is spending somewhere between $200B and $400B per year on a "war" in the MidEast with no end in sight. That money goes to very wealthy defense contractors and companies with oil interests. I would like to spend that money on assistance for people with psychological problems and education in life skills for those who maybe just aren't as smart as anyone of us is blessed to be.

We need government sponsored and supported programs that will get those who are most capable out of the shelters, in homes, and at work. However, there will always be a need for shelters for those with mental and psychological problems. Deal with it, it's going to be an ongoing entitlement and I am happy to support it with my tax dollars and volunteer hours. Those of you who are whinning, get off your fat okole and go volunteer at a shelter so that you can know first hand what the problems are with people who are not as fortunate as you. Maybe you will have a little empathy then and a better understanding of the magnitude of the problems. If there is just one person there you can help, then you will be blessed a hundredfold.

This thread is disgusting! If you believe in god, and whatever your religion is, I would not want to be in your shoes when you meet your maker. If you don't believe in god, then may the fates of life cast you in the same lot as those you despise.

[turtlegirl]

Re: Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

YEAH MATAPULE!!!!!!
Huge round of applause from me!! I couldn't have said it better myself!!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

I am a liberal and proud of it.

As am I - and I have stated so many times on this board. There are many of us, Matapule - and we disagree amongst ourselves as well, just as do the conservatives. But I am pleased to read your statement - it has much strength.

If you don't believe in god, then may the fates of life cast you in the same lot as those you despise.

I don't, so I also fear no "fates of life." Then again, there are none that I despise in this world.

[Seeking Penance]

Re: Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

I agree with every single word expressed matapule. I also was disgusted at first at the thread. Understanding it from both sides; at times is difficult to digest.

Opinions expressed forth are not held liable towards anyone; but to that specific individuals ideas at how it should become.

We all have our own individual beliefs; with god or a higher power.

But believing that our government and/or citizens can somehow evaluate with an agreeable solution to the convoluted problems that was set forth by our past and present officials and individuals alike is impossible. We need more than prayer or faith. We need a miracle.

I am guessing Amati in it's entirety did not specify or surface the stem of it's gripe in this thread. Frustrated with it's tax dollars. Anyone in their right mind would.

Yet we can only do so much.

Mahalo Matapule

[salmoned]

Re: Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

"The state spends $14 million annually in homeless programs. It also receives $4.5 million in Temporary Assistance for Needy Families money and $10 million in Housing and Urban Development funds, both from the federal government."

Does that mean the state pockets $500,000/year from the federal government or does it mean the state actually spends $28.5 million/year on homeless programs with $14.5 million of that spending coming from the federal government or are the federal funds completely unrelated to spending on the homeless (and hence wasted verbiage in this article)? Who dropped the ball on this copy?

[tutusue]

Re: Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

Hey Matapule...
«:::S:::» «:::U:::» «:::P:::» «:::E:::» «:::R:::»

[Amati]

Re: Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

Okay, now you've done it! Matapule is pi$$ed off. Where is my war club? Shame on you, to all of you who are so cold hearted, self centered, and selfish. Where are your virtues of love and charity? Shame on you! I am embarrassed for you!

I bet I can match you dollar for dollar AND HOUR FOR HOUR for giving to my community. I also bet I could take you on a tour of some of the quote-unquote "needy homeless" that your tax dollars support that would make your head spin.
No, I'm not referring to the mentally ill, or elderly, or children, etc. Yes, indeed, they do need our help.
But rather the drink-till-you drop, or just refuse to work, or hole-in-the-brain druggie types who your tax dollars are supporting.
Don't give me any sanctimonious lectures. God gave us a brain and and body, and he expects us to use what he provided to the best possible. That includes a hard days work to support your family, or two jobs if needed. I've done that myself, so I know of what I speak.
Come tour with me and see some of the loosers I see on the taxpayers' dollars, then decide if your tax dollars are being spent wisely. Pull out THOSE IN TRUE NEED and then see who is still left on your dollar! It is many.
Maybe we should just come up with some way of redistributing the country's money. That way, we can all underachieve but still end up with the same life style.

[sophielynette]

Re: Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

I understand both sides of the issue. Yes there are people that genuinely need help, and yes there are people who refuse to help themselves. The question is how do you help the former without enabling the latter? It's a very complicated issue and sometimes practicality and compassion just won't work together, especially where money is involved.

Back to the issue at hand -- I do not think it is unreasonable to ask that people living in a homeless shelter be asked to make an effort. Show that you're trying to get back on your feet again by trying to find a job or kick the habit or whatever ails you. On the other hand, as stated in the original article, it would be beneficial to both the shelter and its tenants if services such as counseling were offered, since that gets people on the track toward becoming self-sufficient and being able to leave the shelter. But again, we're back to the issue of money. And unfortunately, saying "stop spending money on x and invest in y instead" just doesn't cut it. Nothing is that simple.

[TuNnL]

Re: Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

I also bet I could take you on a tour of some of the quote-unquote "needy homeless" that your tax dollars support that would make your head spin.

No, I'm not referring to the mentally ill, or elderly, or children, etc. Yes, indeed, they do need our help. But rather the drink-till-you drop, or just refuse to work, or hole-in-the-brain druggie types who your tax dollars are supporting.

Don't give me any sanctimonious lectures. God gave us a brain and and body, and he expects us to use what he provided to the best possible. That includes a hard days work to support your family, or two jobs if needed. I've done that myself, so I know of what I speak.

I have to agree with you on this one Amati. I would like to know how many of those criticizing the shelter fees have actually visited places like Next Step and IHS. Utu Langi (who I have spoken to personally) is already quoted as saying he will evaluate on a case-by-case basis whether there is a valid reason why individuals cannot afford the $60/month. So really, let’s be realistic. Many of these homeless are really just houseless. They have a home, albeit one they share with fellow shelter residents. If they are able to contribute to that home, they should, especially since Langi says he’ll apply any leftover funds to the first months rent of those fortunate enough to move on to more permanent housing.

[Frankie's Market]

Re: Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

No, I'm not referring to the mentally ill, or elderly, or children, etc. Yes, indeed, they do need our help.
But rather the drink-till-you drop, or just refuse to work, or hole-in-the-brain druggie types who your tax dollars are supporting.

I concur. But it has to be said that you did not make this differentiation clear in your initial post. If you had, the sharp rebuttal and responses to your post might have been averted.

[Nords]

Re: Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

I am a liberal and proud of it. A liberal to me is someone who cares about their extended ohana as much as they care for themselves. I do not apologize for being what I am.

I think that I'd rather give my dollars directly to charity than to trust the federal & state governments to get my tax revenue to the right people. I don't know if that makes me a liberal or a conservative, but I don't care-- I prefer to think that it makes me a donor.

I don't know what we're "saving" by paying less tax revenue to support government welfare programs, but I'm willing to bet that we donate more each year (to IHS & Food Bank*) than we escape in extra taxes.

Rockefeller was one of the first to demonstrate that more money could be raised by linking his donations to matching funds. I wonder if the shelters are able to get more grant money by showing that they're bringing in their own revenue. Beats waiting in line for a government handout.

We'll soon be sending our annual donations to these non-profits, as well as AccesSurf Hawaii. If you know of some fraud, waste, or abuse issue that would change our minds then I'm interested in reading the link.

[sinjin]

Re: Entitlement vs Self Responsibility

But rather the drink-till-you drop, or just refuse to work, or hole-in-the-brain druggie types who your tax dollars are supporting.

And their children. Let us never forget.