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**scrivener** · March 2, 2005, 08:08 PM

Re: The Ten Commandments...

What you say about this country being based on the belief in God is only marginally true. One (of many) reasons the Founders came here from Europe was to escape religious persecution. Even so, consider what that means. They escaped England so that they would be free to practice religion the way they wanted. Isn't it a violation of that very principal to insist that the government permit itself to express preference for any religion at all? I think it is.

Additionally, it has become very popular for Christians (and I am a worshipping Christian myself) to say that this country was founded by Christians; this is true, but these Christian founders did not practice or believe the brand of Christianity contemporary Evangelicals seem to enjoy imagining they practiced. Most were Unitarians (this means they did not believe in the Christian concept of the Trinity) and deists (this means they believed in a creator who set everything into motion and then backed off to watch what happened, never getting involved in the daily affairs of humans).

This is not to condemn them, but to say that they did what they did in order for the government to allow its citizens the freedom to practice any religion they wanted, if any, and to be spared the government's expressing favor upon any religion at all.

Besides. The argument about what the founders had in mind is mostly irrelevant. The question is really, "What do we want our country to be, today?" Our founders never imagined we'd be as diverse a nation as we've become, and I think they'd be proud to see it.

**1stwahine** · March 3, 2005, 11:32 AM

Re: The Ten Commandments...

Our founders proud of our diverse...Homelessness, Illegal and Drug Activities, Child Molestations, etc. Proud? I don't think so. That's why I enjoy this forum cause although I may not be as intellegent as many on the board, I can post my views just as well. Today, I want to post a prayer, it's not a chain letter nor something I ask others to do. It is what I want to express in time of need for our Nation's situation!

Heavenly Father, I ask you to bless my friends reading this. I ask You
to minister to their spirit. Where there is pain, give them Your peace
and mercy. Where there is self doubting, release a renewed confidence to
work through them. Where there is tiredness, or exhaustion, I ask You to
give them understanding, guidance, and strength as they learn submission
to Your leading. Where there is spiritual stagnation, I ask You to renew
them by revealing Your nearness, and by drawing them into greater
intimacy with You. Where there is fear, reveal Your love, and release to
them Your courage. Where there is a sin blocking them, reveal it and
break its hold over my friend's life. Bless their finances, give them
greater vision, and raise up leaders and friends to support and
encourage them. Give each of them discernment to recognize the negative
forces around them, and reveal to them the power they have in You to
defeat it. I ask You to do these things in Jesus' name. Amen

Yes, The Ten Commandmant is GOD'S WORDS and are very powerful to be stricken down even by the Supreme Court! The guidance and hand of GOD himself will direct each justice individually...

**pzarquon** · March 3, 2005, 02:05 PM

Re: The Ten Commandments...

Except if you don't believe in god, in which case all bets are off.

**1stwahine** · March 3, 2005, 02:41 PM

Re: The Ten Commandments...

Originally posted by pzarquon

Except if you don't believe in god, in which case all bets are off.

We pray for the sinners and unbelievers the most...GOD doesn't want the SAVED, they're already in the BOOK of Life.

**waikikiluau** · March 3, 2005, 05:32 PM

Re: The Ten Commandments...

I think this kind of matter is a bit hard for someone to judge even by the Supreme Court coz I believe even how just a judge can be, for sure he/she will decide based on his/her beliefs too...

And I believe this issue about the 10 commandments here in America should be taken lightly. Let alone the 10 commandments to be viewed in public places because we can't deny that it's part of our history whether we accept or not the 10 commandments... Let's keep them in public places as a sign of respect for our past, our history no matter what our grounds or beliefs about God....

That's my two cents about that matter... mahalo!

**Glen Miyashiro** · March 3, 2005, 06:55 PM

Re: The Ten Commandments...

Originally posted by pzarquon

Except if you don't believe in god, in which case all bets are off.

Which god are you talking about? The Red State God, or the Blue State God? He's an awesome one, you know.

**Linkmeister** · March 3, 2005, 07:21 PM

Re: The Ten Commandments...

Originally posted by waikikiluau

Let alone the 10 commandments to be viewed in public places because we can't deny that it's part of our history whether we accept or not the 10 commandments... Let's keep them in public places as a sign of respect for our past, our history no matter what our grounds or beliefs about God....

That's my two cents about that matter... mahalo!

{snark}

Moses was an American?

{/snark}

Seriously, I don't see how the 10 Commandments are part of American history. Palestinian, yes, by virtue of geography. Israel, by virtue of the Torah (I suppose). American?

**pzarquon** · March 3, 2005, 09:24 PM

Re: The Ten Commandments...

Originally posted by Linkmeister

Seriously, I don't see how the 10 Commandments are part of American history. Palestinian, yes, by virtue of geography. Israel, by virtue of the Torah (I suppose). American?

Didn't you hear? God's recently even become a Republican!

In my perfect world, Christians would do their thing, Muslims theirs, Jews theirs, Atheists and Cthuluists and everyone else to each their own, and our government would stick to the nuts and bolts of running the country and stay away from any religion, let alone legislate morality.

Hey, the Ten Commandments are swell, the Bible is a great book, but neither need the sanction of Uncle Sam. My daughter believes in god but I still don't like that she has to pledge allegiance under her every day. It annoys me that my money trusts in god when I don't, and that god blesses the honorable court and chambers that supposedly decide everything, including whether or not god belongs in the courtroom or halls of government.

But, I suppose, such is the life as a minority in a "representative democracy." Non-Christians will just have to wait a while 'til they're the majority.

Er, except that Christians are reproducing at a significantly higher rate than other groups in this country.

**scrivener** · March 3, 2005, 09:33 PM

Re: The Ten Commandments...

Originally posted by pzarquon

It annoys me that my money trusts in god when I don't, and that god blesses the honorable court and chambers that supposedly decide everything, including whether or not god belongs in the courtroom or halls of government.

I'm with you, as you're well aware. I'm a Christian, and I don't think God should be in the pledge, on our money, or in the courtrooms either.

I would hope that my fellow believers would see that Christ never meant for governments to honor or endorse him in any way. "Give to Caeser what is Caeser's," he said, "and give to God what is God's." Please keep in mind, fellow believers, that political leadership is exactly what Jesus did not want--remember those forty days in the wilderness? He refused a crown and later took up a cross. I believe it is our place to follow the example he set. I could back it up with scripture, but if you know the Word, you also already know exactly what verses I'd bring up.

It is our place to believe what we want; it is not our place to force those beliefs upon others.

**1stwahine** · March 4, 2005, 03:10 AM

Re: The Ten Commandments...

A disruputable witness scorns justice,
And the mouth of the wicked devours iniquity.
Proverbs 19-28

**pzarquon** · March 4, 2005, 05:41 AM

Re: The Ten Commandments...

Rule Number One: If all else fails, quote scripture.

**1stwahine** · March 4, 2005, 07:00 AM

Re: The Ten Commandments...

Originally posted by pzarquon

Rule Number One: If all else fails, quote scripture.

Yep! "THE BIBLE" IS GOD'S WORDS FOR ALL TO LEARN AND ABSORB....

**pzarquon** · March 4, 2005, 07:11 AM

Re: The Ten Commandments...

Except if you don't believe in god, in which case all bets are off.

Waitaminit...

**kimo55** · March 4, 2005, 07:52 AM

Re: The Ten Commandments...

Originally posted by pzarquon

Except if you don't believe in god, in which case all bets are off.

religion is the opiate of the masses

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