Ethnic politics?

[anapuni808]

Re: Ethnic politics?

Kamuelakea, It would be good if you could understand the difference between "ethnicity" and "nationality". That might be a start for you.

[John Maple]

Re: Ethnic politics?

Ken Conklin makes me sick. Can't stand the sight of the ethnic carpet bagger.

But your argument is that Conklin, who is 100% immigrant shouldn't be spouting off as a "Hawaiian" but that some 99% Haole or 99% Asian and 1% Hawaiian can.

How U feegah?

I don't see the point. The toenail club is the true tennis club. Native Hawaiians are Native Hawaiians. They are on the verge of extinction. If they choose to completely marry out with hot korean chicks or whatevah, fine. but the few left should have the opportunity to have their country back.

The mostly Haole, Japanese, Chinese, Portuguese, Filipino, whatever, can still be proud of who they are but they cannot continue to hold themselves out as
Hawaiians. They are not.

Conklin's act makes me sick as well. Conklin has NO history here. He gets off the plane, feels the breeze, and concludes that he has some deep spiritual connection. His ancestors did nothing here; most of them probably didn't even know Hawai'i existed and those that did never bothered to come here.

Even the 99% Hawaiian has an ancestor who lived and died here. You might view your ancestors as fractions. I don't. They were people and all of them matter. All Hawaiians, whether they married haoles or not. Should the 99% Hawaiian acknowledge their other ancestors? Of course. But they have a unique history here, one that no other immigrant does, one that should be cherished and valued, regardless of what phenotypes showed up in the genetic scramble. That's the difference between Hawaiian and Conklin or anyone else. It's a difference that should be respected and it makes more sense than artificially capping out one of the most interbred peoples in the world at 50% Hawaiian.

Intermarriage has its problems. Negotiating identity is one of them. And even during the days of Kamehameha, there were 'olelo no'eau about the Hawaiian men angry that American sailors were taking their sweethearts. But Hawaiians never shunned their children or cut them out from their geneaological heritage because of a magic quantum. Never. I hope that my children marry Hawaiians, because of our shared history and our community. But if they choose to love someone else, that doesn't make them or their descendants any less of descendants of our proud and ancient people.

[John Maple]

Re: Ethnic politics?

Because AJAs had to vote for Akaka and he knew it. Akaka was in the places he could make the biggest diff. He was reminding Hawaiians to get off da elemu and show up and vote. Odawize most stay home.

Between Case and Akaka, AJAs had no choice.

This is what I said. Akaka knew the race was close. Hawaiians (especially crossover Hawaiian Republicans) swung it in his favor. What is your argument?

[John Maple]

Re: Ethnic politics?

Maybe "anything less is selfish", but politics is selfish. That's the field you're dealing with.

Even with the toenails, the Hawaiian community is fighting for its survival. Take out those and Hawaiians become insignificant.

This comment borders on psychological genocide. Really look at your words and think about them.

You are saying that without a bunch of poidog mutts, that Native Hawaiians are insignificant.

Who is guilty of trying to finally kill off the real Native Hawaiians? No need Asians to do it when you got Hawaiians like you.

kamuelakea, really look at your words and think about them. My comment does not even approach psychological genocide when it's viewed in context.

I was talking about politics. Politics is brutal. Without those "poidog mutts", there are not enough Native Hawaiians to do anything politically. If the Hawaiian community, one of the most interbred in the world, stops at the artificial 50% line (a made-up designation by racist Americans who wanted to depress the number of claimants for Hawaiian Homelands and keep the races separate), then there aren't enough to make an impact.

I'm honestly starting to question whether you're not in the Conklin camp after all. I mean, if Hawaiians can be divided down to a size that is politically negligible, then they have no realistic shot at sovereignty. That leaves you free to cheer them on and pretend to support Hawaiians, while you wait for them to die out. And when they do, well, golly, that opens up "the gravy train" to everyone else, since there aren't any "real" Hawaiians around anymore. Well, everyone else except those nasty Asians you really despise. I'm not accusing you, but I feel I need to put that on the table.

Like I said, if you have a history in these islands going back for over nine centuries, in my opinion, you're a Hawaiian. Two "bad" marriages don't change that at all. It just means you have other histories too. What's wrong with that? It's only stealing other people's histories and appropriating it for yourself that I despise. I count all those with that shared history as Hawaiians, whether they're Akaka or Kawananakoa.

[TuNnL]

Re: Ethnic politics?

I agree with you that AJAs + Hawaiians + Unions + HGEA can beat the Haole vote any day. But you're assuming that those groups always vote together. They don't...

Good point! I.E. Lingle being elected Governor in ’02. The Local 5 union split two ways. All the Eric Gill supporters voted for Hirono. All the Tony Rutledge supporters voted for Lingle. Gee, no wonder the feds couldn’t get Tony, after a very public indictment. You think? BTW - if anyone reading this works for Tony, I’m only making a joke.

[John Maple]

Re: Ethnic politics?

I really don't believe you are 50% Hawaiian. This sounds like the work of a UH Haole professor type.

Brah, doesn't matter if he got the entire Haole vote, in fact, he did. They still aren't enought to beat the AJAs + Hawaiians + Unions + HGEA.

What do you expect a 50% Hawaiian to say? That my 'aumakua called this election?

If you don't think the war is an issue, then you haven't been to a Hawai'i Democratic Convention in a while. For a lot of candidates, it is make or break.

I agree with you that AJAs + Hawaiians + Unions + HGEA can beat the Haole vote any day. But you're assuming that those groups always vote together. They don't, especially since Lingle is actively courting Hawaiians (backing Aiona for Lt. Governor, bringing in Micah Kane as her campaign manager, passing party chair to Sam Aiona, lobbying for the Akaka Bill, showing up to Ku I Ka Pono rallies, pushing for Hawaiian charter school funding, refusing the call from members of her own party to join the Slomites at their 'Iolani Palace Admissions Day disgrace, calling in Kawananakoa to run for House and then Senate, etc., etc., etc.). But when you move the Hawaiians back into the D column, you get a guaranteed victory. That's all I was saying.

[John Maple]

Re: Ethnic politics?

It may not be what it used to be but it still wins races and puts plantation asians in elected and appointed and HGEA positions at least 100% overrepresented relative to the population of Hawaii.

Weaker? Maybe. But its still a one party town and the threat against Case as this being "Suicide" is evidence that much of Hawaii still operates in that old closed racial society known as the Plantation Asian Hawaii, aka Da Localz.

It takes years, maybe even decades, for political systems to catch up to demographics. But inevitably that's the key determinant. It's the river that cuts through the strongest rocks.

Sure, the Democratic Machine is still powerful. But Case had a fighting chance if he played his cards correctly and wasn't such an incorrigible jerk. The only reason that this was political suicide is that Case backstabbed the institution that put him in power. In this election, Case burned too many bridges going after Akaka, who is nobody's idea of a corrupt man anyway. It was a dumb gamble because he gave up a safe seat and it was dumber because he went after the nicest man on earth and (if all that wasn't enough) fumbled turnout so badly.

[John Maple]

Re: Ethnic politics?

Don't know who said that. I said I think Case assumed she would be a peace pipe but instead she really was the samurai shaft. Deeze old Japaneeze don't want to envision a Republican haole boinking deah chicks. I know you think I'm joking but I'm not. Garannzzz.

And I'm saying that I don't Case assumed that at all. At the most cynical, he probably assumed she was a photogenic trophy wife with political connections. And before you say that I meant "Japanese" when I said "photogenic", I didn't. I meant "photogenic." I think Ed Case would have married Alexandra Kerry if he could. Again, assuming his marriage choices were politically motivated.

I don't think you're joking at all. I just think you're wrong.

[John Maple]

Re: Ethnic politics?

Keoni, Just look at the districts Case won. North Kona, Kahala, Kailua, Hawaii Kai, etc. The only districts he won were the traditionally Haole areas. You can't win most seats with only Haole votes and definitely not a statewide race.
Going against the Plantation Machine in this race is either stupid or suicide. Don't know which he was hoping for.

That's why I think he really thought he would get AJA votes cuz of the wife. But I knew he wouldn't.

That's true only if Hawai'i elected senators with a district-by-district electoral college. And I never said Case was banking on only Haoles. But he doesn't need the AJAs to win. They are a slowly dwindling, aging population with nowhere near the power they exercised in the '60s, '70s, and '80s.

Voting Age Population (2000)

To determine voting age population in 2006, I counted everyone in or older than the 10 to 14 years of age category in 2000. Slight bias to younger populations, but I think the numbers still make the point:

Haoles: 401,682
Japanese: 259,931
Filipino: 223,956
Native Hawaiians: 188,313
Chinese: 139,344
Korean: 31,446

http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/info/cen...whitestate.pdf
http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/info/cen...e/xjpstate.pdf
http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/info/cen...ipinostate.pdf
http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/info/cen...inesestate.pdf
http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/info/cen...oreanstate.pdf

Haoles have the Japanese outgunned by nearly 2 to 1. Even if you throw in the Chinese and the Koreans (many of whom are small-business owners that could conceivably vote Republican or Republicrat) on the basis of some pan-Asian argument, they only slightly beat out the Haoles (by 3.5%). The Filipino vote could have gone either way; my guess is that, at the start of the campaign at least, they were split with a slight advantage to Akaka. This isn't to say that AJAs aren't an important constituency--they have good turnout, good funding, good community networking, etc. But I think Case knows that Hawai'i has changed since the Lingle election (where an AJA lost to a Jewish Republican in a statewide race).

Furthermore, I'm not sure the AJAs are as homogenous as you make it seem. Case started his political career in an AJA district; I think he's aware that class can be just as determinative as race in the voting booth.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Ethnic politics?

Say what you need to in order to feel better about yourself, White Sammy. But talk is cheap...and native Hawaiians like me have work to do. For my people. And my kids. And yes, even yours. And I will not let the ignorance of their father get me down. Because *my* ancestors are on my side.

Re: Ethnic politics?

But when I see it from my fellow Hawaiians....even those whose ancestry is the equivalent of being my great-grandson (for giggles let's call you 5/32 Hawaiian), it disheartens me. Why? Because you don't see your responsibility as a calling. You don't see your heritage as a noble burden. Nah, you call it the gravy train. It ain't up to you; doesn't have to be, ain't your kuleana.

Brah, you are such a haole. Go back to arguing about immigrants--at least some of them give a sh*t. But being a dissaffected keiki o ka aina is worse.

I think you are the Haole. Greedy. Self centered. You are trying to create a "new Hawaiian" that fits the definition of who your ancestors and you and your children decided to marry. 100 Hawaiians could come up with 100 different definitions. By your previous point about the monarchy, does that mean that Thurston Twigg Smith and all the missionary Haoles should also be "Hawaiians" by your definition? I doubt it.

My postions more closely agrees with many of the "real" Native Hawaiians. Those opposed to the Akaka Bill tended to be those with greater Koko. Those in favor tended to be the toenails. That is one reason I believe it didn't pass and why it may never pass.

You can attack me but I'm on their side because I don't want to be selfish, because I am proud of all of my heritage(s), not just the Hawaiian, and because I feel like I am free to be as Hawaiian as I want to be in modern Hawaii. Nobody is stoping me from being me.

But Native Hawaiians are on the brink of extinction, partly due to their own choices but mostly not. They deserve some help.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Ethnic politics?

I know who I am. Don't need to pretend to be any more Hawaiian than I am or any less. I also don't want to pretend that I am in a position to tell real Native Hawaiians what they should do with any sovereignty.

If you are truly Native Hawaiian (50%, not the new DHHL 25%), then I think the Hawaiian Nation should be yours.

And if your kids marry Filipinos or Japanese or Haoles then they have no right to continue to pretend to be “Hawaiians”. The will always be of Hawaiian decent, but they are no longer “Hawaiians”.

Das my opinion. Can’t see how any additional education would change. But I’m all ears.

I expect ignorance from people with no vested interest, no genealogical tie to the aina, no mookuauhau, no family here. I expect it from the Ken Conklins, and the yokels who "wanna move to Ha-why-yee because I feel one with the earth and the vibe and I am a reincarnation of Madame Pay-lay".

It tires the hell out of me. Wanes the smile off of my face. But I expect it, so I can deal with it.

But when I see it from my fellow Hawaiians....even those whose ancestry is the equivalent of being my great-grandson (for giggles let's call you 5/32 Hawaiian), it disheartens me. Why? Because you don't see your responsibility as a calling. You don't see your heritage as a noble burden. Nah, you call it the gravy train. It ain't up to you; doesn't have to be, ain't your kuleana.

*spits and glares*

Brah, you are such a haole. Go back to arguing about immigrants--at least some of them give a sh*t. But being a dissaffected keiki o ka aina is worse.

Re: Ethnic politics?

Hypothetical: If he did get more AJAs, but still not enough to beat Akaka, could he have made it up with the native Hawaiian vote? Guarans bo barons. Did you forget the native Hawaiian “Get out the Vote” drive? Hawaiians were there at the polls. Like “Keoni” said, the vote just got split between Akaka and Kawananakoa. 50% Hawaiians or toenail Hawaiians, unless you work for Dwayne Yoshina, you don't know jack sh** about 1%.Cuz he knew dey wuz going vote, bruddah! See how smut you are.

Brah, I really don't want to respond to you cuz I can tell you not dat smat.

Let me simplify it cuz you getting confused.

Hawaiians did vote and they voted for Akaka. NO surprise.
Haoles did vote and they voted for Case. Again, NO surprise.

So the difference maker was the next largest bloc. And who was that class?

Yes, very good, it was the AJAs.

And who did the AJA's vote for? Akaka.

Speaking of you don't know Jack.

Re: Ethnic politics?

I stand by my three points. Get educated, Kamuela. We cannot afford to have Hawaiians perpetuate your kind of thinking. The largest group of Hawaiians are between 25%-49% Hawaiian. And I have explained all of this before.

I know who I am. Don't need to pretend to be any more Hawaiian than I am or any less. I also don't want to pretend that I am in a position to tell real Native Hawaiians what they should do with any sovereignty.

If you are truly Native Hawaiian (50%, not the new DHHL 25%), then I think the Hawaiian Nation should be yours.

And if your kids marry Filipinos or Japanese or Haoles then they have no right to continue to pretend to be “Hawaiians”. They will always be of Hawaiian decent, but they are no longer “Hawaiians”.

Das my opinion. Can’t see how any additional education would change. But I’m all ears.

[TuNnL]

Re: Ethnic politics?

You are funny. A haole "republican" courting Sansei and Yonsei? You gotta be kidding. You are from Hawaii, no?

As opposed to issei and nisei who would be even less likely to vote for him? It’s the younger generation that’s restless, but unfortunately they’re the ones that don’t vote. Which is why Case lost. Makes perfect sense to me.

Hypothetical: If he did get more AJAs, but still not enough to beat Akaka, could he have made it up with the native Hawaiian vote? Guarans bo barons. Did you forget the native Hawaiian “Get out the Vote” drive? Hawaiians were there at the polls. Like “Keoni” said, the vote just got split between Akaka and Kawananakoa. 50% Hawaiians or toenail Hawaiians, unless you work for Dwayne Yoshina, you don't know jack sh** about 1%.

He was reminding Hawaiians to get off da elemu and show up and vote.

Cuz he knew dey wuz going vote, bruddah! See how smut you are.

What’s funny is that you keep trying to save face, after you just got shut down big time by John Maple. You try to correct him by saying Lloyd Nekoba was behind Waihe‘e’s campaign. Yeah, that too, in addition to Cayetano's.

Why don’t you listen, instead of making papakole for a change. You don’t understand Hawai‘i politics any more than the malihini hippie standing at the bus stop.