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  • Kahana Valley evictions

    www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081025/NEWS501/810250356/1001

    Seeing my friend of decades sad face on the front page of the paper this morning brings this pitiful situation straight home for me, and the feeling that something better needs to be done than to kick LONG time residents off the land.

    Listening to the news last night with a DLNR guy arguing with a lady there, not letting her say much, really got me riled. I'm hoping there can be a fight put up against this BS to save these people from a fate that they don't deserve.
    https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

  • #2
    Re: Kahana Valley evictions

    My mother and I just saw the video on the Starbulletin website and tears started flowing. My Hawaiian family lives in the same place my family on that side has lived at for a very long time as well, I could not imagine...
    I'm disgusted and repulsed, and I can't look away.

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    • #3
      Re: Kahana Valley evictions

      One of the problems is that when a family lives in a home, any home, and then has children (more than 1), then someday the children have to find a place to live on their own, to raise their family.

      Unless all your children, and their spouses, live with you, and raise their children under your roof, then you don't have a solution in hand.

      I see a similar problem in land that is bequeathed to ALL the grandkids together. Pretty soon a 1 acre piece of the Big Island ends up with 30-40 owners. All cousins. They fight and fight, and the land is never used. Eventually, the taxes go unpaid, and the county gets the land. Makes my heart break.

      If you are a grandparent, with land, do the right thing. Pick 1, yup, I said it, ONE and ONLY ONE, grandchild, and give it all to that person. Or sell the land, and split the money before you die.

      I realize this is not what is happening in Kahana, but I just wanted to get that knowledge out there. I feel sorry for those residents. But seems to me the writing has been on the wall since 1987. Act 5 was a poorly written law, with misguided intentions in the first place.

      Here in South Kona, I helped get the Bishop to sell these 1/2 acres to all the families. 32 of them. Took a lot of time, and a ton of pressure. But they gave us a fair price, and all but one family bought their land.

      Why not let these folks in Kahana buy the land they live on? That would be fair. Also, if the State has no authority to issue new leases, then who does?
      Last edited by timkona; October 25, 2008, 09:03 AM.
      FutureNewsNetwork.com
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      • #4
        Re: Kahana Valley evictions

        Originally posted by timkona View Post
        [...]
        If you are a grandparent, with land, do the right thing. Pick 1, yup, I said it, ONE and ONLY ONE, grandchild, and give it all to that person. Or sell the land, and split the money before you die.[...]
        Choosing ONE grandchild over several is problematic. I wouldn't advise it unless there were extenuating circumstances (drugs and incarceration come to mind!). Another option for grandparents is to set up a revocable living trust then switch the land into the trust's name. All grandchildren can be named as beneficiaries. Once the 2nd grandparent passes then the beneficiaries inherit the assets. They can, at that time, decide what to do with the assets including selling everything and splitting the money or arguing over everything to the point that taxes are unpaid and they lose the land...depending on how the trust is set up. The trust can also state that the land not be sold and that enough assets be put aside to continue paying the taxes. A grandparent shouldn't be put in a position of selecting one over many nor should a grandparent sell land while still alive unless they choose to do so for a variety of reasons. Adequate estate planning, which isn't very expensive, can prevent these problems.
        Last edited by tutusue; October 25, 2008, 10:03 AM. Reason: typo!

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        • #5
          Re: Kahana Valley evictions

          The whole thing is shibai to me. They're being given the bum rush when some better situation can be resolved without the pressure being currently exerted. The State doesn't seem to have been straight up for years here and there needs to be an immediate time out for some satisfactory resolve.
          If not, then it's time for the people to make a stand for better treatment.
          Mob the Capital building and don't let Linda go back to the mainland for McCain and force her to think about it.
          https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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          • #6
            Re: Kahana Valley evictions

            The term "ancestral" must carry no immediacy whatsoever in order to be valid. To me, ancestral rights to a home on a small piece of land need only require a great-grandparent's fact of having lived there, with a solid string of heirs in the same house. That's really only 65-70 years in terms of human generations. In fact, if YOU were born there, and your Dad/Mom were born in the same house, then there's a good chance this logic applies.

            You gotta know that 70 years ago in Hawaii, Kahana was far from the hubbub of recent annexation, and future statehood.

            But beyond that, it is also fair to say that there never were any rights of "ownership" because back in the day it was the King's land. Now that the lands, that used to belong to the king, belong to the state, then the folks residing there should still have the right to purchase. At least the first right of refusal, superceding even park land/public lands interests.

            Nothings ever free. And I'm not saying "give it to them". But they deserve at least the opportunity to buy it. And the State of Hawaii is remiss in not allowing for that option.

            And Tutu, back in the day, the King always named an heir. Only one. And it's a good custom that has fallen out of favor in recent times. I mean, seriously, where would the intrigue of Shakespeare come from, but not for rival siblings.
            FutureNewsNetwork.com
            Energy answers are already here.

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            • #7
              Re: Kahana Valley evictions

              Originally posted by timkona View Post
              [...]I mean, seriously, where would the intrigue of Shakespeare come from, but not for rival siblings.
              I'll opt for appropriate estate planning any day! And the next time I see Shakespeare I'll tell him!

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              • #8
                Re: Kahana Valley evictions

                There must be much more to this Kahana Valley situation then we hear about.

                Watching the news tonight showing the residents trying to move all their possessions in open truck in the rain is very sad. It brings the first of many questions; why the rush? Why is the state giving such short notice? My guess is this has been coming for many years and has just now come to a head.

                The residents have known for decades they are on state land and should have known this was a possibility. One wonders if they had made any attempts to get a lease or ownership of the land. Or did they feel it was better not to stir the pot?

                There maybe issues the state is not talking about. One possibility is laws about the use of cesspools. Very large fines can be levied on the owners of land where cesspools are still in use. You can get by for a while if you show proof you are working on converting to a septic tank. But that conversion may be too far out of line for the state to think about. Meanwhile the state runs the risk of large fines for non compliance and they do not want to draw attention to the situation. That’s just one possible scenario.

                Like I said, there is considerably more to this than what we are seeing.
                "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone."
                Ayn Rand

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                • #9
                  Re: Kahana Valley evictions

                  Originally posted by 68-eldo View Post
                  There maybe issues the state is not talking about. One possibility is laws about the use of cesspools. Very large fines can be levied on the owners of land where cesspools are still in use. You can get by for a while if you show proof you are working on converting to a septic tank. But that conversion may be too far out of line for the state to think about. Meanwhile the state runs the risk of large fines for non compliance and they do not want to draw attention to the situation. That’s just one possible scenario.
                  Side note: Cesspools that are "grandfathered in" are still legal. It is "gang cesspools" (where many sources of waste water are dumped into one large cesspool) that must be closed.
                  Now run along and play, but don’t get into trouble.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Kahana Valley evictions

                    Seems to me that "Stirring the pot" in Hawaii is something that is frowned upon heavily, from a cultural point of view. Better to eat $h!+ than complain about the taste.

                    The public restrooms (?) are likely a gang cesspool. Wonder if they have been converted. If more than one home is using the same cesspool still, then that is a huge fine by now. The law took effect April 05, I believe. The fine is $32,500 PER DAY.

                    There is probably much more to this story than you find in any Hawaii newspaper, investigative reporting being what it is in this state. A writer here on Big Island explained the lack of pincushion reporting by citing the small community we live in, and being careful not to soil your own nest.
                    FutureNewsNetwork.com
                    Energy answers are already here.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Kahana Valley evictions

                      *sighs*

                      tragic
                      stay forever young

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                      • #12
                        Re: Kahana Valley evictions

                        Up-date - seems the eveictions are on temporary hold as (barely) enuf up-roar has been raised to concern the officials, and hopefully clearer heads are figuring out way's to deal with this so no one loses.

                        The tenants are stating they won't move, even tho they've mostly cleared out their belongings to be safe from the expected bulldozers.
                        https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                        • #13
                          Re: Kahana Valley evictions

                          Mondays Star Bulletin mentioned the residents were told June 20th they would have to move. Leases expired 13 years ago. They are not on any sewer system, they use outhouses.

                          Like I said there is more to this than what we are seeing in the news.
                          "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone."
                          Ayn Rand

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                          • #14
                            Helllllloooo Linda Lingle... where are you...?

                            Oh that's right, you're out whoring around for McPalin and won't respond to the issues.

                            This is where the bottom line is, and what she want's her legacy to be framed around, as she's got nothing else after 8 years...
                            Oh, and showing her true colors by lying thru her teeth about Obama.
                            What a gal.

                            www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081029/NEWS01/810290376/1001
                            https://www.facebook.com/Bobby-Ingan...5875444640256/

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                            • #15
                              Re: Kahana Valley evictions

                              There may well be more to the story, but the AG's opinion that the state lacks the authority to offer new leases is very questionable. If this is true, how and why did the prior leases come to be? The story states that those expired 13 years ago. If not the state, then who possesses the authority to work out new leases? This the state government in its shameful moment of callous indifference.

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