Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

[kimo55]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

so why is it then that the more vocal Hawaiian activists like Ms. Trask used the word Haole in a derogative way last year? It seems I only hear the phrase F@#n Haole uttered from the very people who embrace the Hawaiian language as sacred! I hardly consider the use of the Hawaiian language in that manner as sacred or revered in any stretch.

prolly cuz it's je'like you get da kine early pidgin (like what we grew up with in kailua in da 60's) and den get da odda kine, more modern li dat, with some cali and L.A. gangbanger crap thrown in. And of course, the really early pidgin like you get early hawaii days, when the original (i suppose) pidgin was being formed; the 20s and thirties?


just like that, there is early "ancient" Hawaiian, then there is the "transistional tongue" I call it, wherein meanings are beginning to get altered as the era of contact with outsiders makes the language morph into something else... then we have the so called 'modern' hawaiian language...

"It's clear as mud but at least it covered the ground..."

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Thanks or Mahalo for that translation but...HAH?!

[kimo55]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Thanks or Mahalo for that translation but...HAH?!

'chumean "HAH!?"?!

Im tellin you there are many meanings to each hawaiian word; depending on the context, and depending on the era that word was defined in!
so hah! there!

I had my post completely removed, what gives?

Thats strange...Hmm?!??!

you mess wit da sacred Hawaiian words, brah
you goin' get kahuna'd!

'chout!

[admin]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Sorry, I only caught up with this thread today. Were these edited and missing posts in this topic specifically?

I certainly haven't edited or removed any messages here. I don't think Mel or Helen have either (they've been kind enough to be volunteer firefighters, but will hopefully never have to suit up). I know we had an earlier thread on 'haole' but you don't have any posts there...

When posts are edited, there should definitely be a notation. Something like "fixed quote tags" or "resized large image."

Outright removal of posts will likely never happen, unless you post a close up photo of some kind of gaping wet orifice (and you're lucky if you missed this particular episode!) or something... and even in that case, there'll definitely also be a notation as to why.

Apart from that, if anything, posts are occasionally moved, threads split into separate topics, and the like. But what you write should always be retained. At worst, if you get lost, the "Search" function should help you reconnect.

Again, I have no answers for this particular thread. If you want to help me figure it out, please PM me, and of course anytime if you have other questions or concerns.

[kimo55]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Outright removal of posts will likely never happen, unless you post a close up photo of some kind of gaping wet orifice

eeewww!
THIS post shoulda been removed.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

'chumean "HAH!?"?!


Im tellin you there are many meanings to each hawaiian word; depending on the context, and depending on the era that word was defined in!
so hah! there!

This is a perfect example as to how pidgin can be misinterpreted by your statement.

I didn't mean Hah as in, "Humph you don't know what you're talking about."

Notice the question mark before the exclamation point? That makes the pidgin of saying Hah as, "Whoa dat dakine UH talk try talk mo simple for dakine buggas like us."

so your "Hah! There!" Needs to be restated as "Get um? Shoot we go eat"

Got em? Okay...latas.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

eeewww!
THIS post shoulda been removed.

What's wrong with a mouth? Long pause...insert dirty thought... Ho man what you was tinking brudda?

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Outright removal of posts will likely never happen, unless you post a close up photo of some kind of gaping wet orifice (and you're lucky if you missed this particular episode!) or something... and even in that case, there'll definitely also be a notation as to why.

Yeah, I saw that one when it got posted. Yipes. Glad you were on top of it.

Err. That didn't sound right.

[Glen Miyashiro]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

["haole"] was also used in an ancient legend (can't find it...sorry) that refers to a pig-man on the Big Island..."pu'u haole"...who was a stranger who came and frightened the wahine of kalapana. There are also stories with references to na pua haole, strange flowers, etc.

Would that pig-man be Kamapua'a? Lemme see... there's a portion of He Mo'olelo no Kamapua'a that has "haole" in it, is this what you were thinking of? I can't read Hawaiian so I'm not sure if it's the right reference.

E ka ehu, e ka uli,
E ka hiwa, ka maha kea,
Ke kukui, ka maumau,
Ka hala uhaloa,
Ke-a oo, ke-a piwai,
Ka haole nui maka alohilohi.

[Mahina]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Would that pig-man be Kamapua'a?

Ka haole nui maka alohilohi.

That line is from the chant to Kamapua'a, but he is not the pig-man I'm referring to. I still can't find it....

At any rate, the line above translates "A big stranger with bright eyes..."

Oh yeah....in my original post above I wrote "pu'u haole". It should have been pua'a haole. E kala mai....went back and fixed it (well, tried, but cannot get back into da post lidat...grrrrrr).

[Kalani]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

I also read that Captain Cook wasn't merely killed, he was eaten as well. So with that said, Captain Cook...the other white meat.

I heard of that from a person not from Hawaii. Cook was cooked, but not eaten. The body is put in the imu in order to remove the flesh leaving only the bones.

What really amazes me is that the most extreme Hawaiian activists have Haole last names! Like Trask. What's up with that?

One doesn't need a Hawaiian surname or a male Hawaiian ancestor for multiple generations in order to be an "activist" as you call it. I guess you weren't really exposed to many Hawaiians from homestead. If you were, you would know exactly how hard it is for these people to leave these areas and strive for better education. Who could send their children to better schools? Na Haole! Including those that intermarried, and in turn you have hapa haole children being well educated. Hawaiians like the Trask sisters, Kekuni Blaisdell, Edward Ayau, P. Burgess, and many others.

[Kalani]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

Hmmm but she has a haole first name. Oh my.

Many Hawaiians in those days took Christian names when they were baptized. Even Ka'ahumanu took one after she was baptized.

[Kalani]

Re: Not For Haoles?

Krash's explanation is very cute but it's wrong. The "without breath" thing is a folk etymology that has developed over the years, but it's not supported by a close look at the Hawaiian language.

Krash's explanation is funny, but definitely not far from the truth. The fact is, "haole" was given to those who never followed the protocols of greeting, and that was the exchange of "ha" where they would "honi" (sniff). "ho mai ka ihu" is the term that was used when they would "honi".

If you examine the words "ha" and "ole" using a proper Hawaiian dictionary (e.g. Pukui, Elbert, & Mo'okini), you see that "ha" is actually pronounced hā, and "ole" is actually pronounced 'ole. Hā'ole is not the same word as haole. This is a good example of the misunderstandings caused by using the English alphabet to represent Hawaiian words without the appropriate accent marks.

Glen, can you explain when the dictionary was established? Keep in mind that you are not considering changes in any given language which is the norm, not to mention only less than 200 years of Hawaiian orthography which only in recent years has it been stabilized with minimum changes unlike the changes it went through since the 1820s, the 70s, and of course in the 90s.

What you also failed to mention was that you are making the assumption since its inception the word "haole" was always been pronounced the way that we do it today. Let me give you some examples.

Today many people pronounce the island of Molokai as it is. Whereas they say the correct way is w/ the 'okina - Moloka'i. There obviously was a change in pronunciation. The question is, which is the correct way? I say that b/c what many people don't realize is the story of how Moloka'i is NOT the correct pronunciation or at least not the original pronunciation. Had Captain Cook know how to use an 'okina in distinguishing names, it may have been easier. But if he did, would we see the island name as it is pronounced today? I say that b/c the use of the 'okina as told to me by kupuna of that island was incorporated later in the 40s or so, probably due to songs being composed of that island and was sung like that. Like how "`onaona" is sung 'ona-'ona, but is not the correct pronunciation. But Capt. Cook only wrote down what he heard and what he heard was Morotai, not Molokai nor Moloka'i.

Look at Diamond Head. The Hawaiian name is Lē'ahi. But even that term is new. How new? We know that during Ka'ahumanu's time it was already known as that, but prior to that, that mountain was known as Lae'ahi, named of the brow of the 'ahi fish that would swim past that area.

Given those examples, it proves that Hawaiians even prior to European contact have changed the pronunciation of their words. You are making the assumption that HAOLE, although that word has been used in chants during the time of Paumakua, a chief who lived 30 generations before Kamehameha, was NOT pronounced with the 'okina.

My point being, what you see written down today as "haole" cannot invalidate the original meaning or its original inception. And that even in the chant of Paumakua where the description ka haole nui maka alohilohi... which refers to the big foreigners with bright eyes, is not written with all the accent marks. Does that mean 'ālohilohi was pronounced differently then b/c it wasn't written with its 'okina and kahakō?

... is not named so because it has "no breath"; it's named so because it is a foreign plant.

No, haole became to mean "foreign" in regards to those who didn't follow the protocols and that word evolved to mean foreign versus the other word for foreign.

[Kalani]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

The word "haole" was around long before Captain Cook appeared and long before it morphed into meaning someone of Caucasian descent. Its meaning was and always has been "stranger".

It is used in our Kumulipo...the traditional creation and geneological chant of the Hawaiian royal family.

The Kumulipo was composed during the time of Lonoikamakahiki. "Haole" was being used even the time of Paumakua, 30 generations before Kamehameha.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Meaning of the Word 'Haole'?

it would be interesting to trace it's polynesian (Tahitian?) roots. Then you can really see just how far back it went. Kon Tiki anyone?