Hate Crime?

[mungbeansoup]

Re: Hate Crime?

Let's see if I get this --- you condemn a particular racially-identified group for ascribing a specific behavior to a particular racially-identified group...by ascribing a specific behavior to a particular racially-identified group? Having a bit of a logic dilemma with that argument.

Please. You're referring to morality rather than logic...is what I'm saying valid because I'm engaging in the same behavior I'm condemning?

I'm talking about social/political/economic power and control. These issues are about the ends, not the means.

[bbcmay]

Re: Hate Crime?

Who's "cause"? I'm not advocating a cause, per se. My point is that these things happen all the time to everyone, regardless of race, religion, etc. This makes news because it happens to a White couple in the state of "racial harmony".

To think that this is getting publicity because the couple is white is a joke! Go google crimes like this and see what you can find.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Hate Crime?

This makes news because it happens to a White couple in the state of "racial harmony".

That is an element, but I think it has to be added to the factors of the incredible level of violent reaction that was way out of proportion to the initial transgression. That would be news anywhere.

Getting to the initial aspect of this thread, I personally do not consider this to be a "hate crime" as defined by Hawai`i statute; the racial epithet uttered by the teenager does not make it so. Our speculation on whether the fighting family was motivated by heat-of-the-moment anger or by a century-plus of "Haole vs. Kanaka" oppression will never be resolved.

SOME Kanana are @$$holes. SOME Haole have "aloha spirit." You (the editorial "you" - not anyone specific in this thread) cannot say that in every case where a Hawaiian punches a white person, it is automatically attributable to a life-long hatred over their nation being stolen. Nor can you say it's necessarily "race-based" in every situation.

Any time we assign a characteristic, a behavior, a trait, a stereotype to "all" members of a class of people, we are automatically in error. Is there anyone here who does not recognize that? No one group has a monopoly on ignorance, hatred or evil, nor on knowledge, love and respect.

[buzz1941]

Re: Hate Crime?

What Leo said.

And our "state of racial harmony" -- it's like the old saying about democracy: It's the worst form of government, except for all the others.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Hate Crime?

What Leo said.

Thanks, Burl. Shall we ask Pua`i Mana`o if we can help hold her hair back while she hurls?

[mungbeansoup]

Re: Hate Crime?

To think that this is getting publicity because the couple is white is a joke! Go google crimes like this and see what you can find.

And how many of those crimes merit inches on the front page of USA Today?

I lived in LA for 7 years--Black on Latino (and Black on Black and Latino on Latino) crime was common. You think most of that made the front page of the LA Times?

[bbcmay]

Re: Hate Crime?

That is an element, but I think it has to be added to the factors of the incredible level of violent reaction that was way out of proportion to the initial transgression. That would be news anywhere.

Getting to the initial aspect of this thread, I personally do not consider this to be a "hate crime" as defined by Hawai`i statute; the racial epithet uttered by the teenager does not make it so. Our speculation on whether the fighting family was motivated by heat-of-the-moment anger or by a century-plus of "Haole vs. Kanaka" oppression will never be resolved.

SOME Kanana are @$$holes. SOME Haole have "aloha spirit." You (the editorial "you" - not anyone specific in this thread) cannot say that in every case where a Hawaiian punches a white person, it is automatically attributable to a life-long hatred over their nation being stolen. Nor can you say it's necessarily "race-based" in every situation.

Any time we assign a characteristic, a behavior, a trait, a stereotype to "all" members of a class of people, we are automatically in error. Is there anyone here who does not recognize that? No one group has a monopoly on ignorance, hatred or evil, nor on knowledge, love and respect.

Very well put and thank you for bringing the forum back to where it belongs....on dry land away from the mudslinging!

[bbcmay]

Re: Hate Crime?

And how many of those crimes merit inches on the front page of USA Today?

I lived in LA for 7 years--Black on Latino (and Black on Black and Latino on Latino) crime was common. You think most of that made the front page of the LA Times?

What about all of those fightings after the Rodney King beating?? What happened to him was horrible, but yet it became every white person within a fist slinging reach's fault!

[sinjin]

Re: Hate Crime?

And how many of those crimes merit inches on the front page of USA Today?

I lived in LA for 7 years--Black on Latino (and Black on Black and Latino on Latino) crime was common. You think most of that made the front page of the LA Times?

The story is often picked up when the victim turns out to be a child or otherwise innocent non-combatant.

[mungbeansoup]

Re: Hate Crime?

The story is often picked up when the victim turns out to be a child or otherwise innocent non-combatant.

Sure, when it could be sensationalized or when the LA Times could take the high road and point out the poverty and violence in the poor parts of the city.

But nothing ever changed. And frankly, most of what the LA Times covered was pretty tame. The problems in the ghetto are endemic and there are some real horror stories out there.

[sinjin]

Re: Hate Crime?

Sure, when it could be sensationalized or when the LA Times could take the high road and point out the poverty and violence in the poor parts of the city.

But nothing ever changed. And frankly, most of what the LA Times covered was pretty tame. The problems in the ghetto are endemic and there are some real horror stories out there.

Indeed there are. My point is that I suspect the wider coverage of this recent incident could have as much to do with other details of the victims (serviceman, woman, child) as their race.

[nachodaddy]

Re: Hate Crime?

Stupid people come in all flavors.

End of subject. Everything else is just drama.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Hate Crime?

The Elephant in the Room.

There is a fascinating aspect of the whole racial thing in Hawaii every time it comes down. Despite what many say, Hawaii is different when it comes to racism. Like I’ve said before, Hawaii is the most racial place on earth but the least racist. Like many have said the number of Hawaiian on Haole incidents is really small and most agree not indicative of most Hawaiians and most Haoles in Hawaii.

The thing that does make Hawaii different is the overall reaction to behavioral patterns like this. I guarantee you, if the same small number of events were occurring with any other hoodlum attacking all Japanese, or all Gays, or all women or all Filipinos or all Chinese,…….. Hawaii would be up in arms. The politicians, newspapers, schools would be going full speed to “confront the problem”. There would be laws, investigations, sensitivity training etc. But not with Haole’s.

Why does the 90% of Hawaii that is not Native Hawaiian (I’m not including toenails), fail to express outrage at these events the same way you know they would if the victims were anything but Haole? Probably more than one reason. One, Hawaiians rightful conclusion that “Haoles stole their country”. There is truth to that. It lingers on in the minds of real Native Hawaiians to some extent.

But that’s not the reason the rest of Hawaii remains silent or brushes them off as isolated or not “racist” in nature. That reason has to do once again with “localism”. The mostly plantation Asian immigrants actually enjoy the Hawaiian Haole conflict because it gives them an opportunity to blend into a “local” or “Faux-neo-Hawaiian”. Notice the language usage. Nobody said anything about “locals”. I thought it was Hawaiians and Haoles?

The Hawaiian attacks a Haole immediately morphs into daily conversations at the water cooler as the “Locals versus Haoles”. That transformation is pleasurable to the plantation immigrants because it makes them feel like Hawaiians hate someone else more and even allows them to psychologically join the “Hawaiian team” making them feel more “local”.

Newcomers are not shocked that racism exists in Hawaii. I believe they are shocked (most don’t even know it can’t put their finger on it) at the way Hawaii’s population at large, including news media, (see Cynthia Oi and Lee Cataluna both apologists for ‘da locals’), politicians and otherwise intelligent citizens just brush it all off as irrelevant and insignificant.

There is an elephant in the room in Hawaii. It is the racism that is allowed by certain races against certain races. Hard to explain but fascinating.

[na alii]

Re: Hate Crime?

My feelings are if the Kanaka Maoli ignorants are going to tell the haoles "go back to the mainland" , why not yell at all of us and tell me "go back to Japan or the Philippines. The thing that sounds so stupid to me is that if a haole went back to where they came from years ago MANY of these part Hawaiians wouldn't even exist(with last names like Trask for example)....can't we all get along?

My wife was told these statements of hate because of the color of her skin, plain and simple. Hell ....we don't even own land and the ignorant tells her "give us back our land" . Tell that to the other races like the Portuguese or Japanese and you'll see a real NEWS story.

My Hawaiian co-worker who is 15/16 Hawaiian tells me he buys his own land and don't need no hand outs. Hell, he's not even on the Hawaiian Homelands waiting list.

[PoiBoy]

Re: Hate Crime?

pertaining to the original topic. It was not a hate crime.