Hate Crime?

[mungbeansoup]

Re: Hate Crime?

Newcomers are not shocked that racism exists in Hawaii. I believe they are shocked (most don’t even know it can’t put their finger on it) at the way Hawaii’s population at large, including news media, (see Cynthia Oi and Lee Cataluna both apologists for ‘da locals’), politicians and otherwise intelligent citizens just brush it all off as irrelevant and insignificant.

Oh come on. The difference is that on the mainland Whites brush off non-Whites and their problems as irrelevant and insignificant because they can. The common factor is that the majority rules. Hawaii is something of a novelty because you have a non-White population largely setting the agenda.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Hate Crime?

pertaining to the original topic. It was not a hate crime.

I agree with that. Hate crimes should be absolutely 100% without any other mitigating factors and with undeniable intent based upon “hate”. In this case the idiot got his car scratched and showed the stereotypical inability to control his emotions.

Not a hate crime.

But I still say Hawaii’s silence is far more interesting than juss anodda beef on da streets.

[kamuelakea]

Re: Hate Crime?

Oh come on. The difference is that on the mainland Whites brush off non-Whites and their problems as irrelevant and insignificant because they can. The common factor is that the majority rules. Hawaii is something of a novelty because you have a non-White population largely setting the agenda.

That was true 30 years ago. Today, the politically correct bandwagon doesn't support your claim. The news media spent a week worrying about that black basketball player saying "I hate gays". Was that a 1 week national news headline? Just one example but I would argue that the interesting part of this whole story is that most of the Mainland is actually acting the opposite of Hawaii. In Hawaii nobody acknowledges the Elephant in the room. In the mainland, they take tiny mosquitoes and magnify them into elephants. Catch da diff?

[buzz1941]

Re: Hate Crime?

At the risk of stirring up more bees than usual, here are a couple of historical examples to ponder:

"Dorrie" Miller, a black man, was a Mess Attendant aboard the USS West Virginia during the Pearl Harbor attack. His normal duty station during action was at an anti-aircraft battery. During the attack, he carried his mortally wounded skipper to safety, and then manned an unattended machine gun and fired at the Japanese airplanes. Even though these weren't his assigned duties, he knew what he was doing and did so with diligence. But he was doing what all the other sailors were doing; their best in a time of stress.
In the spring of 1942, the Navy, eager to put a positive spin on Pearl Harbor, began handing out medals by the bucketload. By this time, Miller's coolness under fire had been reported by the black press in America, and when his name wasn't on the list, the black press began agitating for a medal for "our Dorrie."
The Navy eventually gave Miller the Navy Cross, a very high decoration.
Here's the patronizing part. You get medals for stuff above and beyond the call. Miller was simply doing his job, like every other sailor. It was deemed unusual that a black man would perform at the same level as a white man, therefore Miller was decorated.
Does anyone care? No. It's payback time. Black military personnel had been — and have been — screwed out of deserved medals for years. (Just ask the 10th Cav buffalo soldiers who took San Juan Hill while Teddy Roosevelt got the publicity.)
Patronizing? Sure.
But Miller was also alive. Dozens of black sailors were killed at their posts during the Pearl Harbor attack — a half-dozen in an anti-aircraft position just on USS Curtiss — and none of them were awarded medals or any sort of recognition. They were treated as just sailors.
But Miller, as a live hero, would inspire blacks to join the Navy at a time when the service desperately needed men. This was the Navy's hidden rationale in decorating Miller.
Racist? Dunno. Cynical? Absolutely.
Miller was killed in action in 1944.
***
Here's another.
When the accordion was invented in the early 1800s in Vienna, it was the first mass-produced instrument with a built-in, standardized keyboard that was -- most importantly -- pretuned to standardized harmonic range. (Which had been codified by Bach).
Because of this (and because it was portable and loud!) the notion of a "Western" scale of music became standardized throughout the world. Printed music was possible. The accordion swept everything out of its path...
... including non-western tunings and ethnic harmonic scales. Unique regional musics and melodies began to disappear. Ethnic instruments either adapted or vanished. Some hung on, but even today are not considered mainstream music or instruments.
Is this an example of Western cultural hegemony? Of white ethnic terrorism? Or is it simply technological capitalism?
Are we poorer for losing fringe musics? But have we gained by being able to share music world-wide with Bach's standardized harmonic scales and keyboard tunings?
Judgment call.

[mungbeansoup]

Re: Hate Crime?

That was true 30 years ago. Today, the politically correct bandwagon doesn't support your claim. The news media spent a week worrying about that black basketball player saying "I hate gays". Was that a 1 week national news headline? Just one example but I would argue that the interesting part of this whole story is that most of the Mainland is actually acting the opposite of Hawaii. In Hawaii nobody acknowledges the Elephant in the room. In the mainland, they take tiny mosquitoes and magnify them into elephants. Catch da diff?

What diff? You ignore the problem or you sensationalize individual incidents. Either way, the real issue is ignored. It's just the coping mechanism is different.

Catch that?

[kamuelakea]

Re: Hate Crime?

What diff? You ignore the problem or you sensationalize individual incidents. Either way, the real issue is ignored. It's just the coping mechanism is different.

Catch that?

Precisely! Different coping mechanisms. Different coping mechanisms driven by "our" bias and prejudice and even racism. The things we all deny in "paradise".

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hate Crime?

Well like I said earlier, it wasn't a hate crime to me until the phrase "F*ckin Haole" was uttered along with physical abuse on two obviously White people.

When you direct a derogatory word like F*ck and apply it to a specific group of people (Haole), that pretty much tells me you hate that certain group.

Now so far nothing illegal here...just a teenager expressing his right to free speech.

Then he assaults the white guy. That's when it went to simply hating someone for being a certain color of skin, to committing a crime against said people.

So now you hate the person by calling him a F*ckin Haole, then you commit a crime of assault against that person. Hate + Crime = Hate Crime.

I hate you because you're a F*ckin Haole and I'm gonna beat the crap outta you for being born one. This is basically what that youth said and did.

NOW does that make all Hawaiians racist? NO F*ckin way!! The only Hawaiians guilty of being racist were those involved in the brutal attack.

We can keep going on and inclusively label all people of a certain race as racists or be real about it and label only those who choose to exhibit racist attitudes towards another.

[alohabear]

Re: Hate Crime?

Label only the ignorants....they deserve it no matter what the race.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Hate Crime?

As I said before, I don't believe this fits the legal definition of "hate crime," under Hawai`i law:

"any criminal act in which the perpetrator intentionally selected a victim, or in the case of a property crime, the property that was the object of a crime, because of hostility toward the actual or perceived race, religion, disability, ethnicity, national origin, gender identity or expression, or sexual orientation of any person."

(a) The victims were not selected because of hostility in any of the listed categories; they were attacked as the result of a vehicular incident.
(b) This was not a proprty crime, it was an assault.

Even though the circumstances of the assault are not so black-and-white (no pun intended), the "hate crime" statute is. The prosecution knows it would be nearly impossible to make that designation stick.

[sinjin]

Re: Hate Crime?

As I said before, I don't believe this fits the legal definition of "hate crime," under Hawai`i law:

(a) The victims were not selected because of hostility in any of the listed categories; they were attacked as the result of a vehicular incident.
(b) This was not a proprty crime, it was an assault.

Even though the circumstances of the assault are not so black-and-white (no pun intended), the "hate crime" statute is. The prosecution knows it would be nearly impossible to make that designation stick.

The parties were brought together by a vehicular incident, nothing more. IMO unless one can demonstrate that the violence between the parties was likely regardless of ethnic factors, it would seem a "selection" based on race was made by the son.

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Hate Crime?

The parties were brought together by a vehicular incident, nothing more. IMO unless one can demonstrate that the violence between the parties was likely regardless of ethnic factors, it would seem a "selection" based on race was made by the son.

The law generally interprets "selection" in hate-crime circumstances to mean chosen or targeted in advance.

[sinjin]

Re: Hate Crime?

The law generally interprets "selection" in hate-crime circumstances to mean chosen or targeted in advance.

I am merely speculating on the line of reasoning the FBI might be entertaining.

[bbcmay]

Re: Hate Crime?

I too know this cannot be charged as a hate crime. However the severity of the beatings was due to ones race. It is just too bad. But this doesn't represent this day in age. I think the nation has come a very long way in racism, while there are still people out there who are racist, they are now a minority thank goodness!

[Leo Lakio]

Re: Hate Crime?

I am merely speculating on the line of reasoning the FBI might be entertaining.

Oh, I hear ya. The boy's choice of epithet certainly means that the racial issue can't be ignored. I've been careful to note "under Hawai`i statutes" regarding the filing of "hate crime" charges, but you're right - the Feds have a different way of looking at it.

[sinjin]

Re: Hate Crime?

http://hawaii.gov/ag/cpja/main/rs/sp...crimes2005.pdf

Some interesting reading.