Hate Crime?

[scrivener]

Re: Hate Crime?

What if the victims were two HUGE Samoans? I don't think they would have been THAT stupid to attack them. I think because of "who" the victims were the Paakaulas knew they could mess them up and walk away from it. Had it been two other people beefer and BIGGER they would have not beaten them.

Then that has nothing to do with hate crimes.

[glossyp]

Re: Hate Crime?

The Paakaula father came in after the scuffle had started. The way I see it...he came to defend his family.

And attacked the woman who was reportedly 5'3" tall rather than go after the husband? This is classic abuser behavior - they attack the smaller,weaker person, not the one who might actually be able to present a fair fight.

[tutusue]

Re: Hate Crime?

Please. Hate crime legislation is some of the stupidest lawmaking I've ever heard of and it fries my ham that the phrase even exists in the lexicon. What happened is terrible, but it has nothing to do with "hate crime," and even if it did, what's the difference?

While it doesn't change the magnitude of the physical crime, the difference is, as I understand it, being convicted of a hate crime can tack on additional punishment.

"Fries my ham"...HA...love it!

[Pomai]

Re: Hate Crime?

The revelation that the male victim is an enlisted soldier who served TWO tours in Iraq makes this all more upsetting. This is just as bad as if the victim had been an off-duty police officer. These are people who protect our lives and welfare, and they're thanked with this kind of behavior?

Instead of giving them (the suspects) jail, send them on a tour of duty in Iraq, driving around in a HumVee. See how far they get.

[alohabear]

Re: Hate Crime?

One can only imagine what would happen if it was another Hawaiian who hit their car. Shameful!!

Do you think it would have been different if it was another Hawaiian?

Neither car was damaged, the witnesses said.

The teenage boy in the Chevy got out, angry his vehicle was struck and allegedly began yelling profanities, calling the other driver "f----g haole" and kicking the driver-side door, according to the affidavit.

A 43-year-old female witness, who asked not to be identified, told the Star-Bulletin that the teen began punching the man, who was still sitting in the driver's seat.

The affidavit said the 23-year-old woman got out of the Durango and tried to push the teen away from the vehicle and her husband. At that point the teen's mother jumped in and started fighting with the woman, police said.

The witness said the teen's mother got on top of the woman and began punching her.

I wonder why the teen's mother sent her son to confront the driver?

The older witness told the Star-Bulletin that she was disturbed by the use of racial slurs.

"It's really sad to see," she said. "You would think that we as Hawaiians would have outgrown that."

Witnesses heard the racial slurs, not a hate crime, but a good attorney will make a good case.

[PoiBoy]

Re: Hate Crime?

And attacked the woman who was reportedly 5'3" tall rather than go after the husband? This is classic abuser behavior - they attack the smaller,weaker person, not the one who might actually be able to present a fair fight.

The haole guy got beat up

That haole woman probably got pushed and sustained injuries from the fall.
attacked=broad

Take what you read in the papers with a grain of salt. It doesn't tell the whole story. I thought people knew that already.

This is classic abuser behavior - they attack the smaller,weaker person, not the one who might actually be able to present a fair fight.

A fair fight isn't between a 16year old kid vs. a grown military man and his wife. Regardless of who instigated what.

Had I come out of a icecream store .... seen my son fighting a grown man and my wife fighting with another woman. I would have pushed the woman, then beat the crap out of dude. Alpha male Fatherly instincts kick in....right or wrong.

Quote alohabear "I wonder why the teen's mother sent her son to confront the driver?"
Where did you read that the mother sent her son to confront the driver? Stop making stuff up.

[tutusue]

Re: Hate Crime?

[...]I wonder why the teen's mother sent her son to confront the driver?[...]

From what I read I didn't get the impression the mom sent her son. Based on the SBs 2/24 story linked above, it's fairly easy for me to understand why the teen has a short fuse and uses physical abuse to vent such unwarranted anger. The family needs some heavy intervention, imnsho.

[Miulang]

Re: Hate Crime?

Here is the Federal definition of a "hate crime". Interestingly, Hawai'i's hate crime laws appear to deal only with sexual orientation/gender discrimination, not with racial ones.

I was a classmate of the younger brother of Andrew Goodman, one of the 3 college students (2 white, one black) killed in Mississippi while trying to enroll black voters in the 1960s. THAT was a hate crime, pure and simple.

Miulang

[pzarquon]

Re: Hate Crime?

Take what you read in the papers with a grain of salt.

And take what you read on a message board with a huge chunk of rock salt! The speculation here is even worse than any inaccuracies you might ascribe to the press. The closest you'll get to what happened will come out in the courts, and even then, you'll have a minimum of two versions of the story.

Anyway. A crime was commited here, and fault can be divided up a million ways (and will be). But even if you believe there is such a thing as a "hate crime," this one doesn't qualify. Race didn't determine the victim here... circumstance and a short fuse did.

[glossyp]

Re: Hate Crime?

The haole guy got beat up

That haole woman probably got pushed and sustained injuries from the fall.
attacked=broad

According to the report (which Buzz1941 linked to above) from the SB on 2/22 witnesses who saw the incident:
"Paakaula allegedly "punched the woman in the face, picked her off her feet and slammed her onto the asphalt," apparently knocking her out momentarily, according to the affidavit.
Another witness, a 65-year-old woman who also asked for anonymity because of fears of retribution, said the woman flew back 10 feet, landing under her car." [emphasis added]

PoiBoy, you have taken the view that the incident was explainable because of "fatherly instincts" kicking in. The truth is this family is tragically damaged by violence. The 16-year old is a victim as well - no one protected him from his father and now the predictable cycle of violence continues and escalates as he grows older with no knowledge of how to deal with anger and rage or how to break the cycle. Adding to the tragedy is that now there are victims outside the family.

[PoiBoy]

Re: Hate Crime?

According to the report (which Buzz1941 linked to above) from the SB on 2/22 witnesses who saw the incident:
"Paakaula allegedly "punched the woman in the face, picked her off her feet and slammed her onto the asphalt," apparently knocking her out momentarily, according to the affidavit.
Another witness, a 65-year-old woman who also asked for anonymity because of fears of retribution, said the woman flew back 10 feet, landing under her car." [emphasis added]

The addidavit supposedly says that he "punched the woman in the face, picked her off her feet and slammed her onto the asphalt,"
No witnesses said that. Find me a quote from a witness.

How does someone "flew back 10 feet" if they are slammed?
Sounds more like a push.

[tutusue]

Re: Hate Crime?

[...]That haole woman probably got pushed and sustained injuries from the fall.
attacked=broad

Per the SB:

Paakaula allegedly "punched the woman in the face, picked her off her feet and slammed her onto the asphalt," apparently knocking her out momentarily, according to the affidavit.

Another witness, a 65-year-old woman who also asked for anonymity because of fears of retribution, said the woman flew back 10 feet, landing under her car.

Take what you read in the papers with a grain of salt. It doesn't tell the whole story. I thought people knew that already.

This thread is based on what we've read or have seen on the news. As far as I can tell no HTer was a witness.

A fair fight isn't between a 16year old kid vs. a grown military man and his wife. Regardless of who instigated what.

Personally, based on what I've read, I don't feel there was any excuse for a fight to begin with, fair or otherwise, regardless of age, gender, race, name, rank or serial number.

Children learn what they live.

PoiBoy...a respectful, curiosity question: Do you know the Paakaula family? And, no, you don't need to answer that question but it crossed my mind that you might have an emotional interest in this case.

[glossyp]

Re: Hate Crime?

The addidavit supposedly says that he "punched the woman in the face, picked her off her feet and slammed her onto the asphalt,"
No witnesses said that. Find me a quote from a witness.

How does someone "flew back 10 feet" if they are slammed?
Sounds more like a push.

An affidavit is a formal sworn statement of fact from a witness and is part of the public record. The quote that "he punched her in the face, picked her off her feet and slammed her onto the asphalt" is part of the affidavit which the good reporter tracked down and read. So there is no "supposedly says" unless the reporter made up the sentence and didn't read the affidavit.

The quote regarding the woman flying back 10 feet does not appear to be from the affidavit, but is from a 65-year old woman witness who didn't want to give her name as she was afraid the Paakaluas would seek retribution.

[alohabear]

Re: Hate Crime?

well....the question still goes unanswered, do you think it would have been different if it was a fellow Kanaka Maoli family?

[pzarquon]

Re: Hate Crime?

It probably would've been different if they were bigger or looked like they'd actually put up a good fight. But maybe not. Folks with anger management issues like that don't think most things through.