Hate Crime?

[PoiBoy]

Re: Hate Crime?

Rage sees no color.

[Pomai]

Re: Hate Crime?

And take what you read on a message board with a huge chunk of rock salt! The speculation here is even worse than any inaccuracies you might ascribe to the press.

Exactly.

So far everything speculated here, while well described, is just HOT AIR. Even myself didn't get the facts straight until several news link posts later. And that's just the press.

[scrivener]

Re: Hate Crime?

I was a classmate of the younger brother of Andrew Goodman, one of the 3 college students (2 white, one black) killed in Mississippi while trying to enroll black voters in the 1960s. THAT was a hate crime, pure and simple.

But should the punishment for such a crime be WORSE simply because of whatever the motives were, or is a murder a murder? Is Andrew Goodman's murder worse than Daniel Browne-Sanchez's murder or Kahea Indreginal's murder?

[alohabear]

Re: Hate Crime?

But should the punishment for such a crime be WORSE simply because of whatever the motives were, or is a murder a murder? Is Andrew Goodman's murder worse than Daniel Browne-Sanchez's murder or Kahea Indreginal's murder?

Nope. Murder is murder. It's a senseless crime that animals rarely do to their own kind ,but man does daily.

[lavagal]

Re: Hate Crime?

This is a most unfortunate incident. This couple backed into a powder keg. I could fully put myself in the shoes of the victims. I could not see myself blowing my top and beating anyone up about it. Is it nature or nurture? What makes some people think they can exact their own justice? At the very most a cop could have been called to take an accident report. At the very most. Nowadays all one needs to do is either call an insurance company or ask the other owner to get a quote on a repair. An inability to control one's temper is a sign of immaturity. Who has learned what? Where is the aloha? What if they had been tourists? Peter Carlisle would have made a federal crime out of it. If someone is in a minor fender bender, they should not have to expect that they will be stomped and beaten for it.

[Pomai]

Re: Hate Crime?

Nope. Murder is murder. It's a senseless crime that animals rarely do to their own kind ,but man does daily.

Rabbits and pigs kill and eat their own young. But that's another thread.

[Miulang]

Re: Hate Crime?

But should the punishment for such a crime be WORSE simply because of whatever the motives were, or is a murder a murder? Is Andrew Goodman's murder worse than Daniel Browne-Sanchez's murder or Kahea Indreginal's murder?

Read the circumstances which led up to the kidnapping and murders of the 3 civil rights workers and about the justice the perpetrators received more than 40 years later, Scriv, and then decide for yourself. A lot of it might have had to do with the time in history that the civil rights killings occurred, too. Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner and James Cheney were lynched. It was racial AND political. And in the eyes of the government, that kind of murder apparently deserves more attention than other kinds of murders.

Miulang

[scrivener]

Re: Hate Crime?

alohabear, you are the one who said this should be treated as a hate crime, yet you say a murder is a murder. Do you think that cases involving assault that don't result in a death (such as the case we're talking about here) are different?

[Keanu]

Re: Hate Crime?

well....the question still goes unanswered, do you think it would have been different if it was a fellow Kanaka Maoli family?

Yes, no doubt.

[timkona]

Re: Hate Crime?

Ahh, that's nothing. Check out the beatings dished out to a pregnant girl and a 60 year old man at Hookena Beach. A hate crime without question.

http://westhawaiitoday.com/articles/...al/local06.txt

Been here for 15 years. There is one lesson I have learned. FEND FOR YOURSELF !! Nobody was ever arrested for self defense. The level of ignorance in the islands is such that violence is often the only tool available to the idiots. Yes, I said idiots. Morons. Underachievers. Substance abusers. Jerks. Lazy slobs. Human piles of excrement.

They are best used as sparring partners, punching bags, and pistol targets. Never hit first. Always hit last.

[buzz1941]

Re: Hate Crime?

The problem with "hate" crimes is that it legislates against what people are thinking. When they act on their urges or prejudices, then the crime is the crime — the hate becomes part of motive, and that colors sentencing.

It would be tough to proscecute on those grounds anyway. According to scholars at the University of Hawaii, only haoles can be racist. Other ethnic groups are simply incapable of it, or so the scholarship goes.

I wonder mostly about the boy, who seems to have been the sparkplug who ignited this fracas. Of course parents want to protect their offspring, but what if the kid is on a berserk rampage? Some of the posts above seem to wonder if the kid is the real victim here. As Poiboy says,

A fair fight isn't between a 16year old kid vs. a grown military man and his wife. Regardless of who instigated what.

Society made him do it. The Man is keeping him down.

[na alii]

Re: Hate Crime?

well....the question still goes unanswered, do you think it would have been different if it was a fellow Kanaka Maoli family?

Nope. Just look what happened to Roger Haudenshild in Waianae. He was a local and got his head stomped on by three guys and later died. It all started with a traffic altercation and again nobody helped.



http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...609030343.html

[PoiBoy]

Re: Hate Crime?

They are best used as sparring partners, punching bags, and pistol targets. Never hit first. Always hit last.

Timmy, the only thing you would hit is the floor.

pistol targets?
Only cowards bring a gun to a fist fight.

[sinjin]

Re: Hate Crime?

Rage sees no color.

Would there have been rage if the victims had more color?

[Miulang]

Re: Hate Crime?

Ahh, that's nothing. Check out the beatings dished out to a pregnant girl and a 60 year old man at Hookena Beach. A hate crime without question.

http://westhawaiitoday.com/articles/...al/local06.txt

From what I have been able to read about Ho'okena Beach Park, it appears that the "locals" know that the beach can have some dubious occupants. One comment I read was that "hippies" camp there. Another comment was that mostly locals go there. Another one said there's a lot of drinking and illegal drug usage in that park.

One reason why some nonresidents might venture there is because it's advertised as the place where dolphins and honu are readily seen. But since there aren't very good facilities (although apparently it does have a solar shower) would non-locals (or nonresidents of the Kona area) go there anyway knowing that it's kind of isolated? Isn't that kinda naive in some ways? Better yet, if Harry Kim's administration knows this kind of behavior is going on, why does the County allow the illegal activities that appear to be going on there?

For me, anyway, I would never go to certain beaches, even if I do look "local". I mean, why tempt fate, right? It's not right that people shouldn't be able to go to any beach, but hey, that's life in Hawai'i. There are certain parts of Seattle that I wouldn't drive through at night, either.

Miulang