Hate Crime?

[sinjin]

Re: Hate Crime?

From what I have been able to read about Ho'okena Beach Park, it appears that the "locals" know that the beach can have some dubious occupants. One comment I read was that "hippies" camp there. Another comment was that mostly locals go there. Another one said there's a lot of drinking and illegal drug usage in that park.

One reason why some nonresidents might venture there is because it's advertised as the place where dolphins and honu are readily seen. But since there aren't very good facilities (although apparently it does have a solar shower) would non-locals (or nonresidents of the Kona area) go there anyway knowing that it's kind of isolated? Isn't that kinda naive in some ways? Better yet, if Harry Kim's administration knows this kind of behavior is going on, why does the County allow the illegal activities that appear to be going on there?

For me, anyway, I would never go to certain beaches, even if I do look "local". I mean, why tempt fate, right? It's not right that people shouldn't be able to go to any beach, but hey, that's life in Hawai'i. There are certain parts of Seattle that I wouldn't drive through at night, either.

Miulang

FWIW this beach is the closest Kona side beach if you're coming from the South Point area. I was there several times when I last visited. Mixed group including some tourists.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Hate Crime?

Do you think it would have been different if it was another Hawaiian?

The fight might have been meaner and the media coverage, if any, would be unbiased--both would come across looking like they are a bunch of low class dumb@sses. Voila! Then everybody and nobody gets called both perp and victim.

[glossyp]

Re: Hate Crime?

The fight might have been meaner and the media coverage, if any, would be unbiased--both would come across looking like they are a bunch of low class dumb@sses. Voila! Then everybody and nobody gets called both perp and victim.

You believe the story got media coverage because of the race angle? I suspect that is true to a great extent not least because of the racial epithet used. On the other hand, if no one had been seriously injured there likely wouldn't have been any coverage. We see press stories of fights which result in hospitilization all the time regardless of race so I'm not sure if pro-haole/anti-Hawaiian bias actually drove the story.

[na alii]

Re: Hate Crime?

You believe the story got media coverage because of the race angle? I suspect that is true to a great extent not least because of the racial epithet used. On the other hand, if no one had been seriously injured there likely wouldn't have been any coverage. We see press stories of fights which result in hospitilization all the time regardless of race so I'm not sure if pro-haole/anti-Hawaiian bias actually drove the story.

I agree too that pro-haole/anti-Hawaiian bias wasn't what actually drove the story but rather the violent nature of the whole incident.

[tutusue]

Re: Hate Crime?

Nope. Just look what happened to Roger Haudenshild in Waianae. He was a local and got his head stomped on by three guys and later died. It all started with a traffic altercation and again nobody helped.[...]

A curiosity question...
What can bystanders do in that situation, other than call the police? In the case of the Haudenshild murder it would've taken, in the immediate area at the same time, 4 or more men larger than the 3 attackers (+ one in the getaway car) to intervene.

What would it have taken to "help" in the Waikele beating? The wife tried to help her husband and look what happened. A 65 year old female witness certainly isn't going to have any affect on the rage in motion. I'm sure there were other witnesses but were there enough people watching who really had the physical capabilities to help?

[na alii]

Re: Hate Crime?

A curiosity question...
What can bystanders do in that situation, other than call the police? In the case of the Haudenshild murder it would've taken, in the immediate area at the same time, 4 or more men larger than the 3 attackers (+ one in the getaway car) to intervene.

What would it have taken to "help" in the Waikele beating? The wife tried to help her husband and look what happened. A 65 year old female witness certainly isn't going to have any affect on the rage in motion. I'm sure there were other witnesses but were there enough people watching who really had the physical capabilities to help?

From what I was told that this Paakaula guy is big and in the case of the Haudenshild case I saw on the TV news of the three guys and they were also big. I honestly think people are just too scared to do anything fearing their own life.

[tutusue]

Re: Hate Crime?

From what I was told that this Paakaula guy is big and in the case of the Haudenshild case I saw on the TV news of the three guys and they were also big. I honestly think people are just too scared to do anything fearing their own life.

Yes, fear is one reason but there just isn't anything the average person can physically do to intervene in the case of adrenaline driven rage and multiple attackers. Nothing that I can think of anyway.

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Hate Crime?

You believe the story got media coverage because of the race angle? I suspect that is true to a great extent not least because of the racial epithet used. On the other hand, if no one had been seriously injured there likely wouldn't have been any coverage. We see press stories of fights which result in hospitilization all the time regardless of race so I'm not sure if pro-haole/anti-Hawaiian bias actually drove the story.

glossy, I was responding to alohabear's musings of "would this have happened if the other guys were Hawaiians?"

[na alii]

Re: Hate Crime?

Yes, fear is one reason but there just isn't anything the average person can physically do to intervene in the case of adrenaline driven rage and multiple attackers. Nothing that I can think of anyway.

The question I had is nothing was mentioned about the security guards at Waikele Shopping Center. I don't know what the security guard's policy is involving physical altercations but it seems security wasn't there to stop it either.

[Keith H.]

Re: Hate Crime?

The question I had is nothing was mentioned about the security guards at Waikele Shopping Center. I don't know what the security guard's policy is involving physical altercations but it seems security wasn't there to stop it either.

Dunno if mall security is really equipped to deal with violence, other than to call in the real boys and girls in blue. Most mall security guards aren't armed. What if (heaven forbid) one or the other side in this altercation were?

[alohabear]

Re: Hate Crime?

alohabear, you are the one who said this should be treated as a hate crime, yet you say a murder is a murder. Do you think that cases involving assault that don't result in a death (such as the case we're talking about here) are different?

Nope, brake the law .....pay the price. There should be no family court for cases like this too, kid wants to be an punk ,put him with the BIG DOGS in REAL prison. He did it as how he was raised...so throw away the key.

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hate Crime?

Would it have been different if it were some local Kanaka Maoli?

Yes I believe it would have been.

This is how I think it would have unfolded had it been two braddahs:

Braddah 1: Oh sh*t I wen hit da buggah...Eh you okay?

Braddah 2: Ow wow you wen hit ma car

Braddah 1: Eh sorry I goin take care you...let me call my insurance company, I nevah mean for whack you.

Braddah 2: Nah minah brah jus one ding my friend work body shop dat kine notting.

Braddah 1: No way I take care you das my fault cuz.

Braddah 2: If you like but eh das cool you alright.

Braddah 1: Shoot den we go fix em up good...eh maybe you get some kala from dis one yeah?

Braddah 2: Oh yeah no? I can use da money for lata on. Shoot we go do dat den, but you sure?

Braddah 1: No worry I take care you das what braddahs do for each odda

Braddah 2: Shoot right on...eh you not dakine related to braddah Sam at Hawaiian Dredging eh?

Braddah 1: Das my cuz why you know him?

Braddah 2: He stay my girlfriend's uncle! Eh you was at Junior Boy's party las week?

Braddah 1: Yeah yeah yeah eh I rememba you we wen shoot pool in da garage dat night rememba?

Braddah 2: Oh yeah no? Oh wow small world, ho good ting I nevah kick your okole, my girlfriend would go mento if she found out.

Braddah 1: You kick my okole, no make me laugh, I wipe your's all ovah da sidewalk. Eh we go drink my house lata on!

Braddah 2: Shoot you still live KPT?

Braddah 1: No way...HULA MAE I get house Mahaka!

Das how it would have probably happened between two Kanaks.

[sinjin]

Re: Hate Crime?

Das how it would have probably happened between two Kanaks.

Great read. Thanks CW. Could I ask your opinion on the status of the crime in question as a hate crime?

[craigwatanabe]

Re: Hate Crime?

Great read. Thanks CW. Could I ask your opinion on the status of the crime in question as a hate crime?

By definition this wasn't the case of a hate crime.

But to me I feel it generated quickly into one when braddah said, "F*ckin Haole" to this obviously haole man and started beating the crap outta him.

Kid needs to take his blood pressure meds, and his dad and his mom.

Today I was at Office Max and was coming back to my car with my 3-year old when I noticed this one obviously local braddah trying to get one big box from Walmart into his car thru the side door. The stalls were too tight and he accidently hit my 86 Honda on the side with his door.

I was right there when it happened and he looked at me a bit embarrassed. Recalling this thread I told him, "You F*ckin potagee"...nah nah nah.

I smiled and said, "Minahs das why I bring my Honda when I go shop, bang em get plenty dents already.

At that point the conversation went almost like my previous thread except this one lead to a potential sale of my car to dis buggah. He needed another car and I told him I was thinking of selling this one cheap. So he gives me his name and number and I may sell him my car.

See how things work out when you stay cool head eh?

[Pua'i Mana'o]

Re: Hate Crime?

has anyone here been in a car accident where anger escalated? I have. My husband has. My father has. And it was nothing like the lovely piece of aloha spirit per Craig's description.

Skipping the details and heading straight for the moral: drive defensively and please keep your cool in an accident.