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  • admin
    replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    Entertaining as this thread has been to watch evolve (or devolve), it's pretty much strayed far from the original topic (last month's incident in Waikele and whether it was a "hate crime") and become a familiar debate among familiar participants that has unsurprisingly returned to broad generalizations and debates over definitions, and has started to turn personal. Time to move on.

    Leave a comment:


  • PoiBoy
    replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    Originally posted by timkona View Post
    I

    The very notion of tracing one's heritage (ethnicity) will be less important in the future as the various races continue to intermingle and breed children of mixed ethnicity.

    I already describe myself as Modern American. I do not claim either Irish, English, French, German, Italian, or any other specific nationalities. I am American through and through. 3rd generation Californian with roots that came across America in wagon trains. Lots of intermarriage, and cultural mingling.

    Everyday, it becomes more entertaining, or downright laughable, to watch various people cling to their "ethnicities" as if they have some special value. The futility of it all is a little sad. I hope they find love eventually, so that they become cured of their myopic view of humanity.

    Welcome to Earth. Humans live here.
    I am proud of my ethnicity. I know who I am and where I come from.
    But it's more about culture for me Tim. That's what I hold on to. I will never conform to ideals of America. I will never "melt" in the pot. I hold strong to who I am and who my ancestors are.
    Often those who preach the "oneness of humanity" are those same people who are colonizers. That's their way of justifying taking land that isnt theirs.
    Nothing wrong them preaching "oneness" ...so long as they preach that "oneness" on their land. Don't impose your way of life on other people and we will get along just fine.( from afar). But I guess it's too late for that huh?

    Realise that we are different my friend...we are sooooo different.

    Everyday, it becomes more entertaining, or downright laughable, to watch various people cling to their "ethnicities" as if they have some special value. The futility of it all is a little sad. I hope they find love eventually, so that they become cured of their myopic view of humanity.
    I pity those who lack sense of who they are or who their ancestors were.
    I laugh at those who boast their nationalistic pride of being an "american". When looking at the history and current affairs of "america/u.s.a" you will find nothing to be proud of.

    There is nothing wrong with people being proud of their culture and ethnicity.
    If it wasn't for that pride in culture and ethnicity...Hawai'i wouldnt be such a beautiful place.

    Welcome to Earth. Where many different cultures and races of people live.
    Last edited by PoiBoy; March 12, 2007, 11:13 AM.

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  • 1stwahine
    replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    Originally posted by PoiBoy View Post
    Haha It was not a hate crime.

    1stwahine- I love filipino women. I just never understood how wahine so small could be so dominating. Seriously....I don't mean to stereotype but they sure do like to wear the da pants in the relationship.
    HAHAHAHAHAHA

    Dominating. Yep! It's true. In fact, I have a new boyfriend. If he don't get his ack together he'll be out the door before he can spell Timbackto!

    Next....

    heheheh

    Pilipino women? Yes. I got Potorican and Cherokee blood in me too.

    Your picture of that hunk of a Samoan is way too HOT!!!!

    I love eye candy...of ALL handsome people.

    btw: Tim Kona...yes. We are ALL Humans. Unlike you, I'm PROUD of my Heritage. Especially, of my Lemurian connection!

    Auntie Lynn

    Leave a comment:


  • timkona
    replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    It's only gonna take 2 or 3 more generations for everybody to be of similar color. Love does not see in color.

    The very notion of tracing one's heritage (ethnicity) will be less important in the future as the various races continue to intermingle and breed children of mixed ethnicity.

    I already describe myself as Modern American. I do not claim either Irish, English, French, German, Italian, or any other specific nationalities. I am American through and through. 3rd generation Californian with roots that came across America in wagon trains. Lots of intermarriage, and cultural mingling. Now I'm married to a Latina of mixed heritage, who does not speak Spanish, and we have a daughter. What ethnicity is she? She is American. And her favorite little boyfriend at school is this blonde toe-headed boy, with a Hapa-Hawaiian Mom. How will I ever describe my grandkids someday?

    In college I never thought of Rufus as my black friend. He was my bud.
    In business I never see my clients as colors. They are homeowners.
    In life, I open the book and read a few pages, before I judge anything.

    Everyday, it becomes more entertaining, or downright laughable, to watch various people cling to their "ethnicities" as if they have some special value. The futility of it all is a little sad. I hope they find love eventually, so that they become cured of their myopic view of humanity.

    Welcome to Earth. Humans live here.

    Leave a comment:


  • PoiBoy
    replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    Originally posted by kamuelakea View Post
    Samoan: Exhibit A http://www.rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/ff...-tuiavii,0.jpg


    Fijian: Exhibit B

    http://www.justpacific.com/fiji/fiji...cal-fijian.jpg


    Hawaiian: Exhibit C

    http://www.exit50.com/images/April2005/_dukesurfer.jpg


    As a group, polynesians are all the most beautiful race on Earth. But you gotta admit, Hawaiians da mos handsome.
    Sole, you are so full of it... I agree the Polynesians are the most beautiful race...but I dunno about da Hawaiians being da mos handsome. Don't get me wrong, Hawaiians are some handsome fellas but not da most handsome.

    Here, I'll do you one betta brah...
    Samoan Lome Fa'atau rugby



    Troy polamalu & Lofa Tatupu

    http://www.diehardsteel.com/files/im...nZilberman.jpg

    Greg Louganis
    http://espn.go.com/i/sportscentury/inline/louganis.jpg

    Esera Tuaolo
    http://images.publicradio.org/conten..._vikings_2.jpg

    The Laughing Samoans
    http://www.talakeiolanews.com/images/laughingSa8.jpg

    Haha It was not a hate crime.

    1stwahine- I love filipino women. I just never understood how wahine so small could be so dominating. Seriously....I don't mean to stereotype but they sure do like to wear the da pants in the relationship.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    Originally posted by ericncyn View Post

    OMG!!!! Wat am I to do? I 'm 51 years old!!!! It's already starting...NOT!

    I totally disagree with the above comment. I dunno where you've been looking but I've been to the mother land as well as lived in Hawai'i all my Life and ALL Women no matter what race ages beautifully.

    For Beauty is only skin deep as well as in the eyes of the beholder.

    Auntie Lynn
    I agree Auntie, and most Filipino ladies over 60 I know are absolutely beautiful because their smile, happiness, love of life, kindness and generosity. I still say the physical catch up happens but who cares, cuz like you say physical beauty is really only skin deep. It's gonna get us all, if we're lucky. Always better than the alternatives.

    Eh, some of my favorite girlfriends waz filipinos. Whew, Hot blooded is right.

    Aloha

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    Originally posted by ericncyn View Post
    additionally, a 1986 study of intermarriage in hawaii from 1950 to 1983 (your "twenty five years ago" would be 1982, in case you forgot) showed "By ethnic group, the Japanese show the largest increase in intermarrige rates." in fact, the study also states that caucasian men were the least likely in that time period to intermarry.

    http://www.popline.org/docs/0716/208420.html

    into the toilet also goes your assertion that japanese in hawaii did not intermarry until about 25 years ago.
    You are really having trouble here and I'm concerned about your educational background.

    The fact that Japanese showed the largest percentage increase MAKES MY POINT. When you start close to ZERO, the percentage increases will be large. Get it?

    See when you go from 1 to 2, thats a 100% increase. (think Japanese)
    But when you go from 350000 to 400000 thats only a 14% increase. (think Hawaiian)

    Who is intermarrying more? 1 Japanese or 50,000 Hawaiians? Hint: Not a trick question.

    Really, weah you wen grad honey?

    Aloha
    Last edited by kamuelakea; March 12, 2007, 09:29 AM.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    Originally posted by ericncyn View Post
    according to the 2000 hawaii census, 285,006 chinese, and 380,821 filipinos identified themselves as chinese or filipino (respectively), mixed with one other race or more.

    that same census states that 391,584 japanese identified themselves as being mixed with other races:
    You must have gone private school girlfriend. What, Priory? Cuz I went public school and it says 94910 Japanese out of 296674 identified as 2 or more races, not 391,584. That is a percentage of 31% of the total state population.

    You can do the math but for Filipinos your charts say 38% are mixed race.
    And for Chinese, its 67%.

    This also leaves out contaminating factors such as which group has had more new arrivals of pure ethnic backgound? Filipinos and Chinese have continued to immigrate to Hawaii in numbers much larger than for Japanese. So if you could compare intermarrying rates based upon how many generations an immigrant family has lived in Hawaii, the numbers would be skewed even further toward Japanese marrying out less.

    Now the state left out Hawaiian and Portuguese, but any rational person would agree that the percentages for those ethnicities would meet or probably beat the Chinese 67%. In fact, if there are only 1000 Hawaiians left and about 400000 who identify themselves as Hawaiian/Part-Hawaiian, then that means 99.75% of all people of Hawaiian ancestry are of mixed race.

    Missionary Haoles Probably Here.
    Japanese 31%
    Filipino 38%
    Chinese 67%
    Portuguese Probably here.
    Hawaiian 99%



    So your numbers make my point. Japanese married out THE LEAST OF ANY MAJOR ETHNIC GROUP IN HAWAII, even as recently as your 2000 census.

    Thank you for making my point.

    IMUA Public School Hawaii!
    Last edited by kamuelakea; March 12, 2007, 09:31 AM.

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  • 1stwahine
    replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    "As for Filipina's, I agree, they age very well and tend to look 10 years younger than they are up to a certain age. But have you ever noticed that most 60 year old filipinos look just as old as any other race 60 year old? What happened? When did they change? That means that they look great right up to about 50 and then, WHAM, father time seems to catch up fast. Just what I've noticed."

    OMG!!!! Wat am I to do? I 'm 51 years old!!!! It's already starting...NOT!

    I totally disagree with the above comment. I dunno where you've been looking but I've been to the mother land as well as lived in Hawai'i all my Life and ALL Women no matter what race ages beautifully.

    For Beauty is only skin deep as well as in the eyes of the beholder.

    Auntie Lynn

    Leave a comment:


  • cynsaligia
    replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    Originally posted by kamuelakea View Post
    From the Encyclopedia Brittania
    http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Hawaii
    Originally posted by kamuelakea View Post
    Now for something more recent. "Immigration The living mosaic of people, culture and hope"

    http://library.thinkquest.org/20619/Japanese.html



    Now I have heard that Japanese have one of the highest "out-marrying" rates of all Asians, but that is on the mainland, not Hawaii.

    Anyway, no need studies, just look around.
    Originally posted by kamuelakea View Post
    You simply aren't looking around. Again. Look at your graduating class or anywhere else in Hawaii. The number of part-chinese/part-haole/part-hawaiians/part-portuguese each outnumber the amount of part-Japanese 1000 to one.

    You don't know Hawaii and especially Hawaii's recent history. It is a fact that Hawaii's Japanese married out the least (of the large ethnic groups) from when they arrived until recently (maybe the 1980s) and probably on a percentage basis still marry out the least. Come on, this is so obvious, it isn't worth argueing about. If you don't see the differnce, you are blind to reality.

    If I invite all of the Craig Watanabe's in Hawaii to a party, most, maybe even all, would be pure Japanese. That's just da facts honey gurl.

    As for Filipina's, I agree, they age very well and tend to look 10 years younger than they are up to a certain age. But have you ever noticed that most 60 year old filipinos look just as old as any other race 60 year old? What happened? When did they change? That means that they look great right up to about 50 and then, WHAM, father time seems to catch up fast. Just what I've noticed.
    "that's just the facts honeygurl"? and what's with your constant exhortations to craig and me to "look around?" is that the only sense you depend on, or have?

    unless you are a blind misologist, you probably want to back pedal muuuuuch harder now than you did with your previous absolute statement re craig which later got watered down to "most" and then subsequently watered down even more in the post i quoted above.

    here are some real, very recent, as well as hawaii-rspecific facts, to be compared to your "part-chinese/part-haole/part-hawaiians/part-portuguese each outnumber the amount of part-Japanese 1000 to one" "fact" and your "japanese didn't intermarry until the last 25 years" "fact" and your dependence on references which include website mostly referring to immigration via ellis island (the opposite side of the US) and (god help you--this one was so pathetic i almost took pity) an encyclopedia from the turn of the century:

    according to the 2000 hawaii census, 285,006 chinese, and 380,821 filipinos identified themselves as chinese or filipino (respectively), mixed with one other race or more.

    that same census states that 391,584 japanese identified themselves as being mixed with other races:

    http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/info/eco...e/chinese1.pdf

    http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/info/eco...e/filipino.pdf

    http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/info/eco...e/japanese.pdf

    in other words, in 2000, there were nearly 107,000 more japanese of mixed ancestry in hawaii than chinese of mixed ancestry, and about 11,000 more japanese of mixed ancestry than filipinos of mixed ancestry in hawaii.

    into the toilet goes your non-japanese ethnicities each intermarry more than japanese a "thousand to one" times assertion.

    additionally, a 1986 study of intermarriage in hawaii from 1950 to 1983 (your "twenty five years ago" would be 1982, in case you forgot) showed "By ethnic group, the Japanese show the largest increase in intermarrige rates." in fact, the study also states that caucasian men were the least likely in that time period to intermarry.

    http://www.popline.org/docs/0716/208420.html

    into the toilet also goes your assertion that japanese in hawaii did not intermarry until about 25 years ago.

    remember what i said earlier about you and your sight?

    eric and i went shopping with mom for persian rugs. after about fifteen minutes of the three of us jumping around, barefoot, feeling pile, looking at the different rug patterns, the salesperson says to me, "it's good your mom took you along, because you need to like the rugs, too--they're an heirloom and your mom will pass them on to you someday." eric, mom and i had a good, slightly uncomfortable laugh, much to the salesperson's consternation.

    why? cause the mom here was eric's mom, not mine, and eric and i aren't married. the salesperson's mistake was that he made an assumption, based on what he saw--eric's mom is of similar build and similar complexion to me. we're both about 4'11" and darker than eric, who towers over us and is more likely to pink than tan.

    for every craig watanabe you see, who might look 100% japanese, i know at least one jason adaro, who looks 100% filipino but has a japanese mother and a filipino father.

    you should hang out more with my filipina inangs--you know, the ones you say are sixty? they'd find you entertaining. firstly, it's likely they're actually eighty and would be tickled to hear you think they're twenty years younger. you could keep em laughing with your funny "facts" which are possibly true only when you turn them around by about 180 degrees. through the gift of laughter, you'd give those old ladies the crow's feet old age didn't.


    ************************************************** ********

    to get back on topic, i don't think the waikele incident was a hate crime. the way the kid was raised, he learned that it was okay to attack those he could "take." if the haole husband was as imposing as olin kreutz, i doubt the kid would have gotten out of his dad's car. if the little 5'3" wife was, instead, of xena-esque proportions, she wouldn't have had to get out of her own car, either. the "f'n haole" part could have been "f'n b!tch," "f'n kotonk," or "f'n stupid driver."

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  • 1stwahine
    replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!!!

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  • sinjin
    replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    Originally posted by kamuelakea View Post
    Now for something more recent. "Immigration The living mosaic of people, culture and hope"

    http://library.thinkquest.org/20619/Japanese.html



    Now I have heard that Japanese have one of the highest "out-marrying" rates of all Asians, but that is on the mainland, not Hawaii.

    Anyway, no need studies, just look around.
    I read somewhere that close to 70% of American women of Japanese ancestry marry "white" guys.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    Now that first statement about AJA's not starting out marrying until the last 25 years or so. Hah?
    Now for something more recent. "Immigration The living mosaic of people, culture and hope"

    http://library.thinkquest.org/20619/Japanese.html

    Along with this economic progress came acculturation and social acceptance, including rising rates of intermarriage; by 1980, three-quarters of all Japanese Americans spoke only English.
    Now I have heard that Japanese have one of the highest "out-marrying" rates of all Asians, but that is on the mainland, not Hawaii.

    Anyway, no need studies, just look around.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    Better stop assuming cuz that just don't sound right, either that or pass whatever you're smoking.
    From the Encyclopedia Brittania
    http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Hawaii

    In early days a limited number of Chinese settled in the islands, intermarried with the natives and by their industry and economy generally prospered. About 750 of them were naturalized under the monarchy. The consent of the Japanese government to the immigration of its subjects to Hawaii was obtained with difficulty in 1884, and in 1886 a labour convention was ratified. Subsequently the increase of the Japanese element in the population was rapid. It rose from 116 in 1884 to 12,360 in 1890 and 24,400 in 1896. Most of these were recruited from the lowest classes in Japan. Unlike the Chinese, they show no inclination to intermarry with the Hawaiians.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: Hate Crime?

    Originally posted by craigwatanabe View Post
    Now that first statement about AJA's not starting out marrying until the last 25 years or so. Hah?
    First start with more distant history;

    http://www.expo98.msu.edu/people/Phelan.htm

    This is from an essay written in 1921. Probably driven by racism to some extent but the description of Japanese in Hawaii pretty accurate for the time.

    The Japanese began migrating to Hawaii in 1885. During all this time Hawaii has maintained a compulsory school-system modeled upon the American system. If there is any evidence of the Japanese having become Americanized, it is yet to be discovered. They do not associate with white people to any extent, nor do the white people show any disposition to associate with them.

    Some of the factors against the Americanization of the Japanese—if such a thing is possible under any conditions—have been the maintenance, by the Japanese, of their own schools and the support of religious organizations and Japanese vernacular newspapers. These schools, newspapers, and churches have exercised a most potent influence upon the Japanese, and they have always taught, written, and preached loyalty to Japan and reverence to her institutions and culture. All Japanese children attend the Japanese language schools, which are conducted by Japanese teachers sent out from Japan. It is true that the legislature of Hawaii recently undertook partially to control these schools; but it failed.

    And yet, how many marriages have there been between the Japanese and other races? It is safe to say that they can be counted on the fingers of both hands.

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